Iraqi democracy

[Donut]

Now that the Iraqis are free to choose their own form of government what should be done if the Shia majority continue to express their wish for an Islamic State?

Obviously the US would have to give up their demands for four military bases in Iraq.

How much freedom should we allow them to have?

[Timber Loftis]

I'm thinking that we're going to see an interesting debate on whether or not the separation of church and state is essential and necessary for freedom and democracy. Iran's having growing pains on this very issue at the moment.

[edit] Nothing will make the US give up demands for military bases. Well, nothing relating to elections or a Muslim state, anyway. Is there a sequiter connection that I'm missing here, Donut, between the muslim state and the military bases? [img]graemlins/1ponder.gif[/img]

[ 04-21-2003, 02:29 PM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]

[Rokenn]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: I'm thinking that we're going to see an interesting debate on whether or not the separation of church and state is essential and necessary for freedom and democracy. Iran's having growing pains on this very issue at the moment.

ahhh but this right here is the nub of the problem. I read an article in the NY Times a few weeks back were they profiled the man behind the philosophy of Islamic extremists, unfortunately I forgotten his name. And one of their root beefs with the US system IS the separation of church and state. I wonder if they will be able to make it work in Iraq or not??

[Mouse]

It does kind of make a mockery of giving the newly liberated Iraqis freedom and democracy if what is really meant is that they only have freedom to chose a system of government imposed by the liberators.

To me this seems not so far removed from the old Soviet system where you could vote for who you liked as long as it was the Communist Party. Surely if the Iraqis want to be governed by an Islamist government, they should be allowed to vote for that option and the rest of the world should accept such a vote as a genuine expression of the Iraqi people's will.

[Timber Loftis]

Anyone have examples of a free democratic society without a secular government?

[Seraph]

And one of their root beefs with the US system IS the separation of church and state.

Compared to some places (for example, Turkey) the US 'seperation' isn't all that seperate.

Anyone have examples of a free democratic society without a secular government?

India?

[Reeka]

I don't think India has state sponsored religion, does it? I mean is being a Hindu a condition of holding public office? I am asking because I don't know; I just assumed it was not. I mean the Church of England is the official church of England and the head of state, the queen, is the head of the church BUT one does not have to be an Anglican to vote or hold office. Also, church law is not the same as secular law. Or am I talking apples and oranges? To me an Islamic state, is a-la Iran where the clery are in control and those that hold office have to be moslems and religious law and "government" are one and the same.

[Donut]

Originally posted by Reeka: I mean the Church of England is the official church of England and the head of state, the queen, is the head of the church BUT one does not have to be an Anglican to vote or hold office.

True, but there are always 26 Anglican Bishops sitting in The House of Lords who have not been elected by the people. Charlie Boy has spoken about seperation of Church & State if he ever gets crowned.

[Donut]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: [edit] Nothing will make the US give up demands for military bases. Well, nothing relating to elections or a Muslim state, anyway. Is there a sequiter connection that I'm missing here, Donut, between the muslim state and the military bases? [img]graemlins/1ponder.gif[/img]

Merely that US bases in Iraq would be anathema to a true Islamic state along the lines of Iran. Furthermore, imagine the effect on fundamentalists in countries such as Turkey, Algeria, Yemen etc. Having another Islamic state in the region would encourage them even more.

Anyway - I've heard Rumsfeld denying that the US wants permenant bases in Iraq. So it must be true.

[Timber Loftis]

[quote]Originally posted by Donut:

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: [qb] Anyway - I've heard Rumsfeld denying that the US wants permenant bases in Iraq. So it must be true.

LoL, good one.

What *is* the deal with fundamentalism, though? Should it be a discouraged form of government? Anyone have a good handle on how fundamentalism might equal (or not equal) the marriage of church and state?