Iraq Reconstruction Package -- and you thought the $300 screwdriver was bad

[Timber Loftis]

From the OMB. Yes, the O-frikkin-MB.

A comparrison of costs in the US and costs under the Administration's Iraq Reconstruction Pacakge

PRODUCT -------------- Cost in US ---- What Halliburton gets in Iraq

Walie Talkie---------------$54.99-------Average of $6,000 each for

Satellite Telephone----------$495--------Walkie Talkies and Phones

Pickup truck----------------$15,454--------------$33,000

Prison(per new be)---------- $50,000--------- $14,000

Business school--------------$4,000 Harvard-----$10,000
(per mo. per student)

Each Protected witness-----$10,273 (Federal witness protection)----$200,000 in Iraq

Computer training---------$200 for 6 month course at community college.---$333 per 30 half-days in Iraq

[ 02-10-2004, 11:19 PM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]

[Timber Loftis]

Goddarned spacing. I hate that. Mongo fix later. Good day, IWF.

[Seraph]

Well, I would say that unless there is some indication of what is actually being provided that the numbers are pretty worthless.

[Timber Loftis]

Really? Please elaborate. Pure dollar figures tend to persuade me, personally.

[Chewbacca]

Smell that?

That's the smell of Dick Cheney and his Haliburton cronies getting rich off taxpayers dollars.

[Davros]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Really? Please elaborate. Pure dollar figures tend to persuade me, personally.

Darn - nothing for me to disagree with and debate here - moving on to another thread (just lettin you know TL that I got a chuckle outta that post on GD )

[Seraph]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Really? Please elaborate. Pure dollar figures tend to persuade me, personally.

Well I'll just pick a few random examples of some questions that I asked myself, or concerns I had when I saw these (In no particular order).
"Computer training-$200 for 6 month course at community college.-$333 per 30 half-days in Iraq."
I don't know how it works out in Chicago, but here in NY Community Colleges are heavily subsidized by the taxpayers, Iraq doesn't have that luxury. In addition, there is most likely a need for things like computers before they can start teaching a computer training class.

"Business school--$4,000 Harvard--$10,000 (per mo. per student)"
It takes years to get a Business degree from Harvard is Halliburton really going to spend years training these guys (I personally really doubt it)? I also wouldn't be that suprised if Halliburton wasn't paying out some amount of money so that the students could have things like food, and shelter.

"Pickup truck && Satellite Telephone"
These both brought up similar questions for me, but I'll address them in the same point. Does Halliburton just go to their local Radio Shack/Ford Dealer, pick up a truck, and go "well, here you are, have fun"? Who's responsible for training people how to use a satellite phone, and making sure that there is bandwidth for it to use? Who is responsible for making sure that the $16,000 truck gets to where it's supposed to be, and then is responsible for making sure that things like spare parts are available? It's not like you can just drive your truck to the nearest dealer when it something decides to break.

Most of these look like prime candidates for the "there is more going on here then a 3 word description will provide for" syndrome.

[ 02-12-2004, 11:03 PM: Message edited by: Seraph ]

[Timber Loftis]

Seraph, those may be fair considerations -- except for the VAST difference in the numbers. And while we may go and try to help Halliburton justify a part of the overcharging, taken in total it's just too much.

I didn't get into overcharging of gas sent from Kuwait, which Halliburton recanted on, or charges of bribery, or charges of imbezzlement -- both of which are being investigated currently.

If it's not a scam or a sham, it's mismanagement. A pretty bad mark against a company that wasn't even required to participate in MANDATORY bidding for government contracts as set forth by the law.

And, i every other instance, these "fair bidding" rules are taken very seriously. I know, because I've managed such bidding for municpal entities purchasing fire trucks. One mis-step in the bidding process usually VOIDS the contract between the government and a contractor.

All in all, it's a deal rammed through the system without following procedure, and rammed down US taxpayer throats. All for Cheney's cronies.

[Djinn Raffo]

Originally posted by Seraph: quote: Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Really? Please elaborate. Pure dollar figures tend to persuade me, personally.

Well I'll just pick a few random examples of some questions that I asked myself, or concerns I had when I saw these (In no particular order).
"Computer training-$200 for 6 month course at community college.-$333 per 30 half-days in Iraq."
I don't know how it works out in Chicago, but here in NY Community Colleges are heavily subsidized by the taxpayers, Iraq doesn't have that luxury. [/QUOTE]Iraq IS heavily subsidized by the taxpayers.. Who do you think is paying for Haliburton?

[Skunk]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: If it's not a scam or a sham, it's mismanagement. A pretty bad mark against a company that wasn't even required to participate in MANDATORY bidding for government contracts as set forth by the law. And, i every other instance, these "fair bidding" rules are taken very seriously. I know, because I've managed such bidding for municpal entities purchasing fire trucks. One mis-step in the bidding process usually VOIDS the contract between the government and a contractor.

Since contractors are always expected to eat any cost over-runs unless specifically provided for in the contract (rare, and usually only as a result of changes made by the purchaser), I see nothing immoral or wrong with these figures.

If I contract someone to supply me with pencils at $2000 dollars each, it's not the fault of the supplier that the prices are so high - he would be doing nothing wrong in supplying them at that cost if I had agreed to it. I would be the one guilty of incompetence and mismanagement - not him.

And therein lies the problem. It is the incompetent government that agreed to such a foolish contract that needs to be targeted for criticism, not the company that is simply fulfilling the agreed contract.