Long story short, she stayed the night last night (we did NOT have sex, we just slept after watching some movies), and lied to her parents about it. Her dad found out and he is a real hardass and he called me this morning just after she left and he said "So, this is how it's gonna start. Lies and Deception?" (We just started going out, but we've known each other for two years). I just went with her and her father to church yesterday, before she stayed the night. She just got out of a relationship with an asshole, but he came from money, so I made it look like she was slummin' in the first place, but now I'm SURE her dad hates me. I can give more details of the relationship if needed, but my main question is:

What do I do now that I'm sure her father isn't very happy with me? DO I just go up to him and apologize or what?

ANY suggestions would be nice. there has got to be some fathers here, am I right?

Er...

The one big thing that I can imagine running through the man's mind is 'why did my daughter lie to me?'. I would dread the worst - not expect it, but certainly fear it. Far from it being him scaring you - no matter how hard he might be, it's up to you to put his mind at rest. He's not going to let you see her if he can't trust her with you - so, yes, I'd be in favour of the apologising, or at least a talk with the guy to find out where you stand. You can't do anything unless you know that first.

I reckon Attalus would be a good man to ask about this, too. Attalus! Where are you, sir?

[ 02-16-2003, 10:00 PM: Message edited by: Tancred ]

thanks. I guess I'm going to have to go with my origional plan and apologize.

Cav, you are definately on the right track. For her dad to have any respect or trust in you then you have to give him a VERY good reason not to think the worst. Going to him man to man and explaining what happened AND taking full responsibility for your actions is the first step to mending fences with the family. If your relationship with him has been good up to this point; then the eventual outcome should be good. It may take him a while to cool down, but making amends is the right thing to do.

LOL, thanks, Tancred, I think. Lessee. Daughter stayed overnight. I was worried sick (hypothetically - you have to put yourself in the other guy's shoes, and BELIEVE ME, if your child hadn't come home all one night, you would have been frantic, calling hospitals, frinds, friends of friends, etc.) I would have been relieved when she finally showed up, but [img]graemlins/1pissed.gif[/img] at the guy who had taken her out. So, yes, an interview with the aggrieved father at short order is advisable. Show up as serious as you can be, no torn jeans or suggestive t-shirt. Say to him what you just posted. If it were me, I would leave, have a talk with my wayward daughter, and my next action would depend on what she said. And then, if <font color=pink>Galadria</font> hadn't gutted you like a tuna the minute I turned my back, you would be relatively safe.

Meant in a nice way, of course. *bow*

thanks for all the advice, I'm starting to feel a little more comfortable with the idea of apologizing to him. I felt like I was going Rambo and accepting a sucide mission by doing so.

This makes me feel a little bit more confident. That's right, all that I am guilty of is breaching his trust. that's all.

This makes me feel a little bit more confident. That's right, all that I am guilty of is breaching his trust. that's all.</font>[/QUOTE]Still serious, mind you! [img]smile.gif[/img] As Attalus said, he probably had one anxious night. You've got your work cut out making it up to him and his wife. But - the important thing - it doesn't seem like you've done anything unforgivable.

thanks. we actually did almost nothing (little bit of kissing and touchy-feely, but nothing more). we watched a couple movies and then slept. Good ol dad called at 8 this moring, but I haven't heard from Shely (that's her) yet today (now it's 10:30 pm). I don't think she even knows that her dad called me. I'm assuming she's grounded, but I'll hear from her tommorrow or tuesday at the latest, so I'm not sure if he even knows we slept in the same bed. he might just think she stayed the night. My parents were here, and he talked to my dad for a while when he called this morning, but didn't mention it to him. I dunno why.

[ 02-16-2003, 11:40 PM: Message edited by: The Cavalier ]

We're not the ones who need to hear the details, Cavalier. Good luck. [img]smile.gif[/img]

true. but I don't think I need to tell him that we were kissing or touching. Just that we watched movies.

best wishes on your talk with Shely's dad <s>Rambo</s> Cavalier. Just remember that all of us father-types here at Chocogaming will be thinking about you and those with daughters will be having nightmares. [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Thanks, I needed a laugh [img]smile.gif[/img]

On top of all this, I have a really bad cold (caught it from shely). I don't know if I want to puke cause of the cold, or cause I'm so nervous.

On a side note, she could, and WOULD, accept all of the blame for this (I didn't really know she had lied to her parents), and it would take all of the heat off of me. But I will NOT allow her to do that, and I will take the responsibility for this. (just wanted to let you know I was being chivalrous, instead of letting her take the blame. I will take this bullet for her.)

[ 02-16-2003, 11:38 PM: Message edited by: The Cavalier ]

i would agree, but just dont make it a habit of doing it for her... thats a small note of warning and wisdom.

thanks. I'll keep that in mind.

Definitely tell her dad the truth about what happened. Obviously he's going to be mad at being lied to, but if you get BACK on the right track and don't lie about anything in the future, I think it might be ok. [img]smile.gif[/img] At least for now, you can tell the truth and it's really not that bad- well, other than the fact that his daughter stayed out all night- at least all you really did was sleep. [img]smile.gif[/img]

How old are the both of you? It makes a huge difference.
When I was 16 my parents would worry themselves silly if I was going to be out late, and I wouldn't have been allowed to stay out overnight. When I was 18 I would phone them and tell them (not ask, tell) what I was doing.

But phoning them was important, and I never lied about where I was going to be. Just so they knew I was staying round my boyfriend's place and not dead in a ditch somewhere, and when I was recently living with them for a few months last year, I did the same - even though I'm now in my 30s they would still have worried if I'd gone out and not come home.

Yeah Epona, I was going to ask the same thing, namely how old the both of you are. [img]smile.gif[/img]
It's exactly as you said - at that age, if I was going to be really late or something I'd call my mother so she wouldn't have to worry. If I was planning to stay overnight somewhere, she'd know about it too. If I were a parent with a 17 or 18 year old kid that stayed away all night, I sure as hell would be more worried about their safety than about whether they were with their gf/bf fooling around.

OMG, this is almost EXACTLY what happened to me and Erika (my girlfriend 10 years ago):

At 1am, Me and my friend John rode bikes to Erikas house (about 3 miles), then they snuck out (Erika and Johns Girl). Anyway, we drove them back (ugh) and brought them back to my room.. no sex, (close though) and WE FELL ASLEEP! I remember waking up at 7am and look over and see ERIKA!!!!!! OH Shit! [img]smile.gif[/img] And they we freaking out too! So we all came up with a story for them, they left, and went home... DAD was WAITING outside for them.... but. We worked a good story out. Erika said that her girlfriend had a lot on her mind, and was upset, so they went for a walk early in the morning.

I THINK he bought it.. [img]smile.gif[/img] Anyway, that was SO cool... lol! And my parents never knew!

Ask HER if her dad looked in the face when she lied. If he REALLY didn't believe her, she'll tell ya. See he could be calling your bluff.. just SEEING if he can get you to tell the truth.. Anyway, I would fess up, and just say something like My old Girlfriend did... lol! Sneaky!

Now, if I have a child, and she is 16, I'll bust your ass if you take HER out all night! :D :D

The Cavalier,
Apoligize and tell him the truth, by doing so you show him you realize you and his daughter made a mistake, and shouldn't have lied. Approach him with manners and respect, DON'T go into any details of your kisssing or what not. Her father was young once himself he allready KNOWS (that is one of the fears deep in his heart that some young pond-scum is doing with his daugther what he did whne he was young). If you show him manners and respect it may help in showing him you are mature enough to date his daughter. As a father of two daugthers when ever I caught them lying to me their punishment was tripled, I don't suffer be lied to at ALL.
If one of my daughters is 5 minutes late for her curfew my wife is on the phone tracking them down, and I'm loading my guns, getting my shovel, and warming up my old beat-up Pick-up. If they haven't shown up by 15 minutes I'm out the door tracking them down. When ever a pond-scum (boy that dates one of my daugthers) comes to pick them up I let the pond-scum know when their curfew is and that it means that time not 5 minutes later.

ALWAYS, ALways be honest, it helps. As a father of two girls I find it paramount that the boyfriend(or my case since there still to young)friend be honest with me and my daughters as well. I told my oldest that if she wanted to go play with a "boy" then I would have to the young man and his parents first, and to my surprise she actually did it :D she had her one friend "Eric" and his parents wait one day just so they could meet me and I could approve or disapprove, it was rather cute and she has done it ever since for the most part. The boy's parent were kind enough to wait for me to show up, heh they only live 3 blocks away from my house but they waitied at the school for for almost a half hour. I could go into a lot of particulars on this but hey, ye dont need to know all this ;) . Talk to your girls father, be honest and do not come off the least bit cockesure if you do your ship my just be sunk. If he invites you into the backyard, RUN, high tail it out the front door :D No we fathers can be a bit heavy handed and just think the torment you are going through, hers is more then likely worse, provided she's a daddy's girl ;)
Dont know if this helps or if it seems like pointless jabbering, Im tired, my fridge broke, roof sprung a leak and my baby kept me up most the night.

Be honest. Promise not to lie again. Promise that in the future you will make appropriate phone calls and keep all parental units informed of whereabouts, plans, deviations from plans, etc. Explain that nothing untoward happened, but be a gentleman and do NOT give details - this will show maturity and should be your M.O. always with family, friends, the world at large, etc. Trust me, even if he asks, the last thing a father wants or needs to know is what you are doing to/with his little girl. Do everything you say you will and act honorably toward her and her father.

And, I sympathize. Ol' TL has certainly been run out of his fair share of parent's houses late in the night. And, Ol' TL finds it weird he is talking about himself in the 3rd person. Must be getting old.

Well, I just got off the phone with shely, she called me before she left the school to go to a cheerleading meet. She is grounded, from phone, going anywhere, and her car. Her father and step mother hate me (that's what they said). Her mom is mad, but she's cool and doesn't personaly hate me. her dad took away her car, and she said she wants to get a job so she can buy her own car so she doesn't even have to worry about him, but I told her not to cut off her dad for me. (two years ago, I helped her repair her relationship with her dad, and as bent as that relationship is now, I don't want it to be completely broken again).

She already took the blame for it, and so it's too late for me to do it now, but it might just work out for the better this way.

What really happened that night was she asked to use the phone, and I gave it to her and left the room to go look for some movies, and when I got back, she said she was staying the night and when we talked about it she had told me she had lied to her mom, and I told her she shouldn't have done that. And that's what she told her parents. that it was her idea, and I told her she shouldn't have done it. so that takes a little heat off me. a little. (I had wanted her to stay the night friday night, cause she has her restricted liscence where you can only drive until midnight, and when we got back to my house, it was already 12:30 and she was REALLY tired and I didn't want her to drive home like that, and she lives like 40 min. away. but she went home, although I think it would have been legit for her to stay the night that night.)

Her father doesn't think I'm going to go anywhere in life and blah blah blah, as if we haven't seen that story line in a thousand love films. Shely knows I have the ability and motivation (most of which comes from her) to be something, and now I need to prove it somehow. so I'm going to the nearest job search place and place my resume or whatever (I was planning on doing this the other day).

Epona asked how old we are. I'm 17 (gonna be 18 in a couple months), and she's 16 (gonna be 17 in a few months).

As a father of a girl (aged 5, but I'm anticipating issues like this in the future), and as an analytical guy, I'd be looking for the would-be boyfriend to explain to me, man to man, what happened, how things went wrong, and what would be done in the future to make sure this didn't happen again. And by "this", I don't necessarily mean the spending the night; rather, the worry and frustration associated with not knowing where your child is overnight. I can tell you that around three in the morning, one's imagination can get pretty creative about where your missing child is.

I'd start off with a recap of what took place, and how it was that she ended up spending the night. I'd address why it was that we didn't call to let her parents know what was going on, and how we can prevent that from happening in the future. I'd be ready to be grilled by her father on the details of what took place and how it all happened, and be sure to stick to the truth (or as close to it as possible). When you start telling lies (says an experienced liar), you start having to remember two histories -- what actually took place, and what you concocted to have taken place (that has to relate to what actually took place). Problems occur when you confuse the two and drop details... and an observant father *WILL* catch those. BTW, that's part of the reason why police often ask people to retell what happened multiple times. If they're telling the truth, the story tends to remain the same. If they're not, it tends to change.

Be prepared for out-of-the-blue questions like "Did you have sex with my daughter?" (or other less polite forms). As an interrogator, I'd ask those to throw you off-balance and see if that changed your story. Answer truthfully, and be ready for follow-up questions that are just as severe. Dad's mission is not to make you comfortable; rather, it's to determine if you're a kid who made a mistake, or a weasel that's eyeing his farmhouse and ought to be shot.

It sounds like between what she's told her parents and everything else, you may not have another chance to talk to him face to face. You may, if you still want to go out with her and want to try to repair the relationship with her father, write him a letter that recognizes how valuable his daughter is to him (as a person), explains what happened, apologizes, offers concrete ways to ensure it doesn't happen again, and offers to abide by his decision on how your relationship with his daughter can move forward in a way that's acceptible to him. If it means the most you can do is go out to dinner at McDonald's and be home by 6:30, it's a start; it's about (re-)building trust.

And after it all, he may be totally unreasonable and decide he doesn't want you around his daughter. If that's the case, it will be because of him, and not because of you, and you can hold your head up high.

As a father, my daughter is one of the most precious things in the world to me. I know that one day, she'll grow up, leave our house, and move out on her own. She'll make her own decisions, and she'll get hurt along the way. My natural tendency is to try to protect her, and since I remember being 17 once, I "know" how guys think at 17. Any guy who gets an "interview" from me is going to emerge scarred and bloodied, certain that I'm an ogre who wants to see him put to death on general principles.

Will my daughter be happy with me when this goes on? Probably not. But I already have to do things she doesn't like, and I know she'll live through it. And so will I.

But any guy who can stand up to me and get through the interview will be one who's got qualities that can support my daughter in her dreams and desires, and that's someone I'll be looking for.

Good luck, and peace as life goes on.

*B*
Psychiatric help, five cents

thanks, as I said before, any advice is welcome. I don't believe he is a very reasonable guy, but he's changed quite a bit over the past year or so. we're gonna let him cool down for a week or two, then I'm gonna approach him or something.

Slightly off the direct topic of the thread, I find it interesting all those people who have mentioned shotguns and pond-scum messing with people's daughters etc - that type of comment.

I find it interesting, because that attitude amongst fathers is not very prevalent in England. If my dad didn't like the person I was seeing at that age he would not have said anything about it, and I've never been grounded in my life. He never would have got angry if I was out with a boy, and would never have been thinking 'leave my little girl alone you scum' - as long as he knew where I was it was OK.

When I was a teenager, conversations with parents about boyfriends involved being told to be careful and to practice safe sex. They never checked out the boy's job prospects lol (something I find a ridiculous concept!) or interrogated them.

So I was just wondering, I would be interested to hear the views of other Europeans as well, are fathers in the US generally more protective of their daughters than Europeans?

Harumph... bad business... very bad business (some guy in a film or a book... with a bushy moustache i don't remember what)...

anyways... yeah tell him the truth... although now that you gf has told him that story, she may get screwed... difficult one... however... to lighten the mood and cheer you up... here goes... enjoy! :blue blink:
<font color="skyblue">
When I was in high school I used to be terrified of my girlfriend’s father, who I believe suspected me of wanting to place my hands on his daughter’s chest. He would open the door and immediately affect a good-naturedly murderous expression, holding out a handshake that, when gripped, felt like it could squeeze carbon into diamonds.

Now, years later, it is my turn to be the dad. Remembering how unfairly persecuted I felt when I would pick up my dates, I do my best to make my daughter’s suitors feel even worse. My motto: wilt them in the living room and they’ll stay wilted all night.

“So,” I’ll call out jovially. “I see you have your nose pierced. Is that because you’re stupid, or did you merely want to APPEAR stupid?”

As a dad, I have some basic rules, which I have carved into two stone tablets that I have on display in my living room.

Rule One - If you pull into my driveway and honk you’d better be delivering a package, because you’re sure as heck not picking anything up.

Rule Two - You do not touch my daughter in front of me. You may glance at her, so long as you do not peer at anything below her neck. If you cannot keep your eyes or hands off of my daughter’s body, I will remove them.

Rule Three - I am aware that it is considered fashionable for boys of your age to wear their trousers so loosely that they appear to be falling off their hips. Please don’t take this as an insult, but you and all of your friends are complete idiots. Still, I want to be fair and open minded about this issue, so I propose this compromise: You may come to the door with your underwear showing and your pants ten sizes too big, and I will not object. However, In order to assure that your clothes do not, in fact, come off during the course of your date with my daughter, I will take my electric staple gun and fasten your trousers securely in place around your waist.

Rule Four - I’m sure you’ve been told that in today’s world, sex without utilizing a “barrier method” of some kind can kill you. Let me elaborate: when it comes to sex, I am the barrier, and I WILL kill you.

Rule Five - In order for us to get to know each other, we should talk about sports, politics, and other issues of the day. Please do not do this. The only information I require from you is an indication of when you expect to have my daughter safely back at my house, and the only word I need from you on this subject is “early.”

Rule Six - I have no doubt you are a popular fellow, with many opportunities to date other girls. This is fine with me as long as it is okay with my daughter. Otherwise, once you have gone out with my little girl, you will continue to date no one but her until she is finished with you. If you make her cry, I will make YOU cry.

Rule Seven - As you stand in my front hallway, waiting for my daughter to appear, and more than an hour goes by, do not sigh and fidget. If you want to be on time for the movie, you should not be dating. My daughter is putting on her makeup, a process which can take longer than painting the Golden Gate Bridge. Instead of just standing there, why don’t you do something useful, like changing the oil in my car?

Rule Eight - The following places are not appropriate for a date with my daughter: Places where there are beds, sofas, or anything softer than a wooden stool. Places lacking parents, policemen, or nuns. Places where there is darkness. Places where there is dancing, holding hands, or happiness. Places where the ambient temperature is warm enough to induce my daughter to wear shorts, tank tops, midriff T-shirts, or anything other than overalls, a sweater, and a goose down parka zipped up to her chin. Movies with a strong romantic or sexual theme are to be avoided; movies which feature chainsaws are okay. Hockey games are okay.

My daughter claims it embarrasses her to come downstairs and find me attempting to get her date to recite these eight simple rules from memory. I’d be embarrassed too—-there are only eight of them, for crying out loud! And, for the record, I did NOT suggest to one of these cretins that I’d have these rules tattooed on his arm if he couldn’t remember them. (I checked into it and the cost is prohibitive.) I merely told him that I thought writing the rules on his arm with a ball point might be inadequate-—ink washes off-—and that my wood burning set was probably a better alternative.

One time, when my wife caught me having one of my daughter’s would-be suitors practice pulling into the driveway, get out of the car, and go up to knock on the front door (he had violated rule number one, so I figured he needed to run through the drill a few dozen times) she asked me why I was being so hard on the boy. “Don’t you remember being that age?” she challenged.

Of course I remember. Why do you think I came up with the eight simple rules?</font>

feel better? [img]graemlins/blueblink.gif[/img]

I do know, Epona, that in the US, there's a rather hypocritical view about sex and things of a sexual nature. In all but the most liberal areas of America, frank talk about sex and practicing safe sex is not all that common (at least in my particular experience, which is, what, 0.0000000047% of the households?).

Over here, we have nuts who shoot people who disagree with their views on abortion, sex education, religion, or just about anything else. Frankly, I wish the US were more open to discussion of sex and related topics; that might, in and of itself, curb a lot of the excitement factor. After all, why sneak out to do something if your parents have already talked to you about it, given their opinions on the matter, and had a frank discussion with you? Takes all of the excitement factor right out of it.

And to look at it the other way, if someone were to have a frank discussion with their 16-year-old child about sex and safe sex, the media would have a lot of fun roasting them for their "abnormal" practices. Makes good headlines, that does.

There may also be one other aspect. I remember what I was like at the ages of 16 through about 24, and it wasn't pretty. In a lot of ways, I was a huge walking hormone, and it's kind of embarrassing to look back on it. Since everyone else I knew was pretty much the same way (or at least, that's what I think), I tend to believe everyone is like that, evidence or not. And so, I want to protect my daughter against a smooth-talking ball of testosterone who'll say just about anything and do just about anything to get what he wants.

I mean, if she's going to make the decision, I want it to be hers, and not someone else's who has sold her on what the world will be like afterward.

So self-loathing may be part of the mix as well.

I have it! The ultimate contraceptive... decribe graphically to your kids how they were concieved... it will cure them of the desire for life... [img]graemlins/blueblink.gif[/img]

Bungleau, interesting post thank you.

I suppose in England there are quite liberal attitudes towards sex, which makes a difference.

One thing I find odd about your post is the thought that teenage boys are a bundle of hormones, and girls are not. Because let me assure you we were ;) Also the idea that girls need protecting from sex where as boys of the same age do not - yet girls are generally more mature than boys of a similar age. I suppose it's that I find odd (and slightly patronising, no offense) - that boys are able to make up their own minds about what they want to do, and girls need protecting so they must not be allowed to make up their own minds, because they may make the 'wrong' decision.

It's the same thinking that leads to derogatory opinions, which are still widespread, of women who enjoy sex and have had several partners - 'oh she's easy', 'bury her in a Y shape coffin' or 'what a slag, cheap tart, she'll go with anybody' - that kind of thing, whereas if a bloke does the same it's seen as normal and no-one raises an eyebrow. Surely it's time to move on from the outdated notion that girls/women are somehow dirty or immoral if they experiment or enjoy sex - the days of girls staying virgins until they pass from their father's control to that of a carefully selected husband are long gone.

Just to be clear that I'm talking about girls and boys over the age of consent, which in the UK is 16.

Sorry if I've derailed this thread somewhat, this is an issue that's always annoyed me!

Um.. interestingly enough, in my wife's Catholic High School they did one better - sex ed. was a simple video of a live birth. :D Leave it to the nuns, man. ;)

Um.. interestingly enough, in my wife's Catholic High School they did one better - sex ed. was a simple video of a live birth. :D Leave it to the nuns, man. ;) </font>[/QUOTE]My parents said I asked when I was about 3, so my Dad told me, and my Mom says I thought about it for a few minutes and then looked at them and said "That's disgusting!". Then a few months later when my brother asked (during an extendend family dinner, no less), my parents said I looked at him and said, "Don't ask, it's gross!"

video of a live birth? the catholic school i went to had the sex ed of religion class "your god says no, so don;t do it or you're going to hell!!!!!" most of the girls did not understand one thing about birthcontrol, because no one taught them. fortunately i went to public school most of my life so i knew the risks and chances, and the methods to avoid mommy-hood. i was one of the last in my graduating class to loose my virginity. because i knew the facts of how condoms don;t work, not just that god doesn't like it.

but as far as my kids go, i just have ot tell them about pregnancy and birth. i had a bad tuime being pg with lyn and a worse time giving birth to justi. with justi i had 36 hours of pure hell!and my pg with lyn.....let's just put it this way, nathan asks why i might want to go through t hat again!

i don;t think dating rules are bad, but i think they should be a colabborative effort between child and parents, and possibly change with boyfriends. for example- first boyfriend is clean cut, skinny, and kinda nerdy- ok they can stay out til 930. second boyfriend is peirced, with greasy hair, leather jacket, and a vacant look in his eyes- no later the 8! just my opinion.

now for the subject at hand- talk to her dad now!!! sooner is better than later. ask to sit down with her parents (step mom and mom included) and her to create dating rules. when to be home, how much time should be given to call before being late, where she is and isn't allowed to be with you (like bedrooms are off limits, the mall across town is too far, etc.) and when you get a job, ask to remake the rules to still fit in time with her around your work schedule. jmo

Sheesh! RevRuby, if at age 16 or 17 my parents had tried that with me I'd just have moved out. Fortunately they had more sense, I've always been a responsible person cos I was brought up that way, I was allowed to do more or less what I wanted, and it didn't result in prison/pregnancy/drug abuse/running wild.

At what age do you see kids as adult? Here it's pretty much 16 - there are still things you can't do (drive, drink in a pub, vote), but at that age if you don't like what your parents tell you to do you have the option of leaving.

I think kids begin to become adults around age 20. Prior to that, their bodies are adult, but not their minds. Around age 20 you really start defining yourself. By age 25, you are basically the "who" you are going to be. From there it's just refinement. MHO, of course.

Like you, I demanded a lot of freedom around age 16 - and took it when it wasn't given. Looking at 16 year olds now, I realize how uncontrollably STUPID I was. This age, 16-20, is the age when you want all of the freedom, but lack any of society's real responsibilities. That's why there's little better for you to do with yourself than drink, do drugs, vandalize property, get in fights, have indiscriminate sex, and, oh yeah, go to school a bit.

as has been pointed out to me, america was first populated by puritans, and so even tho it has been howmany years since then, we have more conservative veiws than the british, and most europeans in general.

as far as kids leaving home here, most parents ivite them to leave, but uinless they are legall emancipated in courts if the youth fails to go to school, or does something really bad the parents are held responsible. legal voting age here is 18, drinking is 21, so one is not adult to the legal system until then. even as an 18 yr going to a regular clinic for birth control it is required for your parents to be told, unless you are a mom, then you are an 18 yo emancipated adult. make sense? no, but it is and children need protected. yes they need to make their own mistakes but, some mistakes are better learned from as an adult

Epona,

If the teenaged girls were also bundles of hormones, how come they never let it be known when I was around? [img]smile.gif[/img] Okay, I admit my general geekiness back then, but still...

As far as the whole boy/girl issue goes, it's definitely not fairly balanced. A guy can go sow his wild oats, and if he decides to move on and ignore any evidence of past mistakes (like children), it's much easier, at least in my perspective. The girl, rightly or wrongly, seems to be the one who gets "stuck" raising the kid(s). And yes, adoption is an option, but that's another thread entirely. [img]smile.gif[/img]

And look at the impacts, too. If a baby is conceived, the guy's job (as my wife reminded me) is already over. The girl gets to carry the baby until it reaches full term, with all the physical and biological changes that go along with it. As well, if a girl is pregnant, it's pretty much assumed she had sex. It's not always assumed which guy might have been the father, although it can be proven today through testing. Yep, still not fair. The girl gets most, if not all, of the downside.

It's interesting to me that you took a different view of my post than I intended. What I meant to say was that if my daughter decides to do something, I want it to be because *she* decided, not because someone else sold her a bill of goods and empty promises. I want her to make up her own mind; that's the point.

I remember from my youth the occasional promising of the moon, with no intent to deliver on the promise. Phrases like "Sure, I'll still love you in the morning" have become jokes because they're so prevalent.

It's also curious to me as I look at things from a more *ahem* mature perspective. Back in my youth, I didn't know the right things to say to get sex, quite frankly. I made up for it in college as best I could.

Today, if I don't care about the long-term implications, it's much easier to do a little acting, pretend interest in what someone else is doing or interested in, all the while focusing on what else needs to be done to open the bedsheets. Is it deceitful? Dishonest? Yeah, but when your big brain isn't doing the thinking, you care less about these things.

Note that I haven't done this; I'm still faithful after all these years, but I could.

And there's a whole industry of people who make these kinds of promises, only to deliver less than expected, if anything at all. The adult film industry, modeling... anything where youth is valued has the opportunity for abuse. And this doesn't mean everyone in those industries is dirty; rather, it's real easy to convince someone that if they "act" in this film, they'll soon be pulling in a million dollar income and partying with the glitziest people in Hollywood.

BTW, I don't think that boys should be allowed to get away with things either. I've got a son just two years behind my daughter, and I'll be expecting him to control his hormones as well. Don't ask me how, yet, because I'm still working on it... understanding of just what the implications and responsibilities of his actions will probably be a cornerstone of it.

Guidelines on contraception for girls under 16 in the UK.

A health professional can give contraceptive advice and treatment to someone under the age of sixteen, provided that they are satisfied that they are competent. Guidance on this was issued in 1985 as part of Lord Fraser’s judgement, following the House of Lords’ Ruling in the case of Victoria Gillick v. West Norfolk and Wisbech Health Authority and the Department of Health and Social Security. These are now referred to as the Fraser Guidelines, and although they relate specifically to contraception do apply to other treatments, including abortion in England and Wales.

The young person is competent to consent to contraceptive advice if

 The young person understands the doctor’s advice

 The doctor cannot persuade the young person to inform his or her parents or allow the doctor to inform the parents that s/he is seeking contraceptive advice

 The young person is very likely to begin or continue having intercourse with or without contraception

 The young person’s physical health or mental is likely to suffer if s/he does not receive contraceptive advice

 It is in the best interests of the young person to receive contraceptive advice without parental consent