First of all, welcome to the <font color="white">Baldurs Gate II: Shadows of Amn Forum</font>, one of the many forums that you can find on the Ironworks Gaming Forums. The following contents of this post will hopefully help you to quickly settle in among the veterans and other regular members of this particular forum.

Secondly, you may want to read the Rules And Regulations, if you have not done so already. It is a pretty short page, and very concise, so spend a few minutes to go through it. If at any time you need to refer to it again, go to the top of almost any page and click on the button that looks as likes this,
http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/noncgi/iwbar_006.jpg

With that out of the way, on to other matters.

<font color="cyan">GAME PATCHES:
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As many of my fellow veterans will know, there tends to be a tendancy for newcomers to not have the latest official patch for their Baldur's Gate 2 game. They suffer from game bugs and ask for help from us when a simple visit to any of the official sites( or a quick search on Google) would have given them the latest patches and most probably solve their problem.

Why? Why do gamers not try to see whether there is a patch for their game? Games are rarely made perfect, and patches are common and considered part and parcel of gaming.

Anyway, I hope as many relevant newcomers as possible patch their game first to see if it solves their issue. Of course, there are the Baldurdash Fixpacks which are lesser known and harder to find, so bugs covered under them are understandable, as the official patches do not resolve them.

If you do not have ToB installed, get the Official SoA Patch first, then get the Baldurdash SoA Fixpack v3.61.

If you do have ToB installed, get the Official ToB Patch first, then get the Baldurdash ToB Fixpack v1.12.

Happy patching, may it solve whatever ails you. If it does not, let us know and we will try to help you as best as we can.
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<font color="cyan">SPOILERS:
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I quote from the Rules And Regulations,
If you want a summarised version, you may refer to this thread, "On Spoilers"

In addition, it is common practice to point out to a person if he/she has spoiled. I emphasise though, be <font color="white">polite</font> about it. Ask the person nicely to edit his/her topic title if it is a spoiler, and add a spoiler tag to his/her post if necessary. You may be wondering now, what is a "spoiler tag"? Allow me to give an example below.
Also, if you want to mention ToB( Throne of Bhaal, the SoA expansion) issues in a SoA context, add a ToB spoiler tag. If you want to discuss ToB issues in a ToB context, go to the Baldurs Gate II: Throne of Bhaal Forum. Remember, not everybody has the expansion, so what you say may not make sense to them, and it will also spoil them.

Lastly, if you are referring to a mod, make sure you make it known that you are talking about a mod, lest you confuse people who do not have the mod. As before, add a mod spoiler tag as well( not strictly necessary though, it is more important that you just mention you are talking about a mod).
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<font color="cyan">MULTIPOSTING:
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Whether by accident, or intentional. Multiposting is not encouraged in this forum. <font color="white">We are not blind</font>. We can see a topic even if you only post it once. <font color="white">We have lives</font>. Do not expect instantaneous answers, believe it or not, we may have other things to do and cannot observe the forum all the time. It may take a few hours before somebody answers. <font color="white">Be patient</font>. Spamming the forum with threads that deal with the same question will only invite trouble for you( and may annoy people who would otherwise answer you).

Use the <font color="white">edit/delete function</font> to delete the excess posts/threads. On every post that you make, there is a button that looks like this ----> http://www.ironworksforum.com/ubb/noncgi/edit_ubb6.gif. This is your edit/delete function.
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<font color="cyan">LANGUAGE:
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Refer to this thread, "Forum rules (please read)" for more details.
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<font color="cyan">SPAMMING:
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This is a game forum, and deals specifically with the game, "Baldurs Gate II: Shadows of Amn". Topics not relating to this game are considered spam in this forum. If you wish to discuss something else, choose an appropriate forum for that particular issue.

There is a General Discussion Forum where you can post a wide range of topics from "Beef vs Lamb" to "What I did in school today". Have fun there. ;)
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Okay, I think I have covered all the major areas. Please adhere to these guidelines, and enjoy your stay. http://www.plauder-smilies.de/lol2.gif

[ 10-29-2002, 10:51 AM: Message edited by: Dundee Slaytern ]

Nice work, Dundee. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]
Obviously you've taken a lot of work over this, so we can only hope that it's followed!

Great post, Dundee!

Bumping routine on?

Thanks, most of the work was already done by others. I just decided to compile everything into one thread and add a few comments of my own.

More or less. I made this thread so that only one thread needs to be bumped, not two.

Nice work Dundee lets just hope everyone sticks to the rules.

[ 09-02-2002, 09:27 AM: Message edited by: Zarr ]

Nice work Dundee...
I hope that neewbies´ll read this and follow this like the bible

Spawkie

As always, great post Dundee!
They should really 'promote' you to Moderator status... [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

I second that idea Alson...

You should've left that to one of the Mods its their job after all :D

[ 09-02-2002, 04:15 PM: Message edited by: Raznar ]

Dundee does a lot of great work on this forum, and it's certainly appreciated and noticed. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Added another section concerning patches. Thanks to LennonCook for reminding me.

At the middle of the page, so <h1>BUMP!</h1>

Bump.

<h1>BmUP</h1>
:D [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Hey Memnoch any chance of making this thread sticky???
excellent explanation btw dundee [img]smile.gif[/img]

I wish I could make it sticky, but Ziroc hasn't put that functionality back on yet. Once he does I'll make sure it sticks to the top. [img]smile.gif[/img]

You might consider starting to direct people to Baldurdash Remix instead of the Dorner originals. For starters, it is alive and being expanded, unlike Baldurdash "classic" which hasn't added any new fixes in a long time. Remix's approach to patching the game is a lot friendlier than the originals, too--most items, scripts, dialogues, etc. are non-destructively patched rather than overwritten as they are in the original.

http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~weimer/bgate/bald.html

[ 09-04-2002, 10:56 PM: Message edited by: jcompton ]

can I *BUMP* too? ;)

The Remix version is iffy, as it contains mods for the improved boss fights and cheats as well( which is not my intention when I direct people to the fixpack). If they seperated the fixpack from those, then I might consider linking to there instead.

bump

I see your point Dundee, but don't forget that most people who needs the Baldurdash patch are new to the game - most of the "veterans" already have it.
The remix is a WeiDU mod, making it much easier to install, and as such, better for newbies.
All the other things in the remix are optional, anyway.

The thing is, I will have to explain which are bugfixes, and which are cheats. The Baldurdash website made it into a clear distinction by seperating the two onto two webpages. This program has it all on one program. I am not exaggerating when I say my instructions will be ignored and the person will just click on the link and let temptation guide him/her. Add the fact that the veterans seem to support it( by linking to it), and you compound the issue.

I do not support cheating, but I will not condemn those who do( not openly anyway ;) [img]tongue.gif[/img] ). So I will not link to that page. Some might say I am being too uppity, but this is how I see it.

Okay. Well, how I see it is that you're not pointing people to the latest fixes: there are several in Remix that aren't on Dorner's page. So I think in trying to be more helpful by "protecting" them from cheats, you're actually being less helpful than you think, because you're pointing people to versions that will damage other mods if they've already got them installed. They're missing out on fixes that affect everything from a significant portion of Imoen's dialogue in TOB to the way the game's music runs.

[ 09-06-2002, 12:54 PM: Message edited by: jcompton ]

BUUUMP!!!

Jason, you are absolutely right.

Oh, and a bump, of course.

<font color="lightblue">Bump. </font>

time for my song!!! bump-bump-bump, bump-da-da-la-da! bump-diddly-bump-bump-ba! bump-bump-bump, bump-da-da-la-da! bump-ba-bump-ba-da-da!

(by the way, there's a secret message in this song)

Hmmmm... I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree. However, I generally advise people to patch first, then mod, not the other way round due to the fact that mods modify the game in ways not intended by the game creators. If they have mods installed already, then I usually tell them to uninstall first to allow for proper patching, then reinstall the mod.

I have both patches and mods, and I have not encounter any serious problems yet( save some unusual bugs from the sola mod, but I think that was because I was using an old version. Updated already).

Well, yes. The Bioware patch will virtually always kill mods.

And Baldurdash patches often will as well, but that is a function of their old-school overwriting nature which has been brought into the glorious new age of enlightenment by Baldurdash Remix. It is still a good idea to do Remix before other mods but it is no longer so dramatically important.

Oh well. I'll just keep jumping into threads telling people where to get the most up to date Baldurdash, then.

And i will help you.

Sorry Dundee, but like you said - we are going to ought to agree to disagree.

No worries.

<font color="lightblue">Ok, the remix documentation states that it has "most" of the SOA fixpack: it has less than a quarter; and practically none of the TOB one. (according to the list of fixes).
Infact, most of the fixes it lists are actually tweaks/cheats !!
AND, none of the fixes listed in it are missing from the Baldurdash website.

Most up-to-date baldurdash fixpack around ??
Maybe if you think "most up-to-date" means "oldest", and "fixpack" means tweaks & cheats. </font>

[ 09-09-2002, 06:08 AM: Message edited by: LennonCook ]

Out of curiosity though, if a person does not have ToB, is the remix still safe for that person?

<font color="lightblue">From what I can get out of the deleteme, each section (TOB Fixpack, TOB tweaks, SOA fixpack, SOA cheats) is optional; there is nothing at all which is required.
So yes, it would be safe; but no it wouldn`t be nearly as good a bug fix as the full SOA fixpack. </font>

Rest assured, all of the TOB Fixes are in there. I just didn't see much sense dedicating an entire section to each bugfix, since most people would want to install all the bugfixes at once anyways.

I believe I said I have some of the SOA Bugfixes. I just haven't had time to go about getting them all together as RL takes precedence over this of course.

I'd say in about a month or so I'll include them.

I'm not trying to offend anyone here, just trying to set the record straight.

Thanks,

japheth

<font color="lightblue">Ah, but at Baldurdash it seems to be setup similar to what you have it, for the bugfixes atleast: If you have TOB, you get the TOB fixpack which includes all TOB fixes and all SOA fixes that work with TOB on top; if you don`t have TOB, you get the SOA fixpack.
Now, if I understand what you`re saying properly, you are trying to set it up so you only need to run one program for both fixpacks; but at baldurdash it`s set up so you can either get some bug fixes for your version, or the full fixpack in one executable; the TOB fixpack including the SOA patches needed. So basically, your mod is setup so you need to install two packages for full baldurdashing, but baldurdash is set up so you only need one one executable and that`s it.

Have I misinterperated your post ?? [img]graemlins/confused5.gif[/img] </font>

Welcome to the Ironworks Forums, japheth.

Just some comments from me.

I prefer the SoA Fixpack and the ToB Fixpack to be seperated for the reason that not everybody has ToB. Also, if you have ToB installed, you do not need to install the SoA Fixpack.

That is not my bugbear though. I am a-okay if both Fixpacks are merged into one installer program, so long as it is made clear which Fixpack the person should install, and that the Fixpack should only be installed after installing the Official Patch( SoA or ToB depending on the person).

Hey! Maybe you should include the official patches in the installer program.

What bugs me is that the Fixpacks has been merged with the Tweaks and Cheats. In Baldurdash, the distinction was made clear by having two different webpages dedicated to them, one each. Why not the same for the installer program( ergo, two different installer programs)?

Welcome to the Ironworks Forums, japheth.

Just some comments from me.

I prefer the SoA Fixpack and the ToB Fixpack to be seperated for the reason that not everybody has ToB. Also, if you have ToB installed, you do not need to install the SoA Fixpack.

That is not my bugbear though. I am a-okay if both Fixpacks are merged into one installer program, so long as it is made clear which Fixpack the person should install, and that the Fixpack should only be installed after installing the Official Patch( SoA or ToB depending on the person).

Hey! Maybe you should include the official patches in the installer program.

What bugs me is that the Fixpacks has been merged with the Tweaks and Cheats. In Baldurdash, the distinction was made clear by having two different webpages dedicated to them, one each. Why not the same for the installer program( ergo, two different installer programs)?</font>[/QUOTE]Well, in the installer the cheats/fixes/tweaks/whatever you want to call them, are separated quite obviously with a checkbox. You check the box, it's installed, you leave it unchecked, it's not installed. Plus by default, the TOB Bugfixes are installed, none of the "cheats".

I really don't see any difference between checking a box in an installer, or clicking a link on a webpage. Both will give you what you want when clicked/checked.

However, that being said, I'm thinking of more clearly defining the sections for people. Although, I figured they were defined well enough by their names alone.

As for clarity, I think I covered almost everything in the readme. If people don't read the documentation, I really can't avoid that problem.

Just my .02

By default, do you mean the checkbox for the ToB Fixpack is checked? If so, I would advise to leave all the checkboxes unchecked by default. People tend to have a pathological fear of altering any defaults in an installer program. Some might say I am being too paranoid, but believe me, that fear is very real in most people.

This is to prevent those without ToB to accidentally install the wrong Fixpack.
You have a point there, I admit. I will wait and see the later versions first then.
As me and my fellow programmers used to dryly comment, "Always design the program under the assumption that the user is a complete moron."

Some might say that we are being mean, but we have to try to cater to all people, and try to prevent said people from messing up as best as we can. At least when we do it this way, when the user is really a complete moron, the user will not end up destroying/corrupting his game files because we expected the user to be a complete moron and instilled safeguards, disclaimers, etc... where appropriate.

Another sad fact is that most people do not bother to read the Readme file, thinking that it is just some random drivel. Every other day there is a request for information on this forum or the ToB forum, when the answer is printed clearly in the Readme file.

Thanks for replying by the way. Keep up the good job.