What is the lowest level anyone has gotten to Ferro and how did you do it? It's so frustrating to wait to get to him to buy my Bishop lvl 5 spells. Is it worth the wait or do you skip the Umpani/T'rang stuff or whatever? Any and all comments would be appreciated.

Level 11, with a party of 6. In expert ironman. They had enough experience to be level 13 when they got there, but delayed levelling. Fighter, ranger, bard, mage, priest, alchemist.

How? Just went there and killed the monsters en route. And teleported in and out to replenish mana at the fountain in trynton.

There's not much point for me to going before L15, as the very nice stuff isn't there yet then. But still, i did once get that far at L11 with a foursome myself, namely Lord Ranger Samurai Bard. We had 7 fully charged Amulets of Healing and used all but one of the charges. After the fixed encounters in the outdoor portion of the Rift, i usually make it running all the way to the Castle without a fight other than the archers stationed at the exit from the Rift and at the trap hall in the Courtyard, and then the next fight is in the Throne Room, and i win it with a Death Bomb or two and some combat. Then i go straight up to become a Templar.
The most important buffs for me here are usually Magic Screen and Element Shield if they have Samurai or Warlocks.
Haste helps plenty, Silencing the Priestesses, if you end up stuck in a battle with them, and Freezing seems quite effective against all manner of Rapax.

the earliest i've started the run through the rift is around level 10/11 with a small party. you can skip a lot of experience by teleporting directly to the rift when you finish the bluff, but the streamlined way i use for picking up some experience is....

use the "set teleport" book you get at martens bluff to set portal at the trang teleport machine. then teleport direct to the umpani - join up, buy spells, walk to the hogar cave, get the "return portal" book. visit uncle bela, use return portal to get back to the trang and then use the machine to get to the rift.

if i'm going for an early run, i'll often make direct for the templar challenges by avoiding any and all peripheral things in the rift (including the priestess rooms, the corpse rooms, the staff/key sequence, etc.), and run through the courtyard rather than battle. then i'll use strategies similar to scatter to get through the throneroom.

once you're a templar, the rapax area is easy pickings. HOWEVER, you do give up quite a bit of combat-earned experience and item drops this way, so it can undermine your long-term goals.

one final thought - if your party is level 12 or lower, the encounters at the rift are a lot easier. most notably, minimal encounters with warlocks and samurais - just beefcake ;)

i've never noticed a lack of items shopping at ferros getting there early. can you be more specific, scatter?

The Mauler, Dread Spear, Strong Bow, L5 Spellbooks, i think also the Cloak of Many Colors, Golden Breastplate, Infinity Helm, Snakeboots...at least the time i went at L11 they weren't available, and were when i got back as L15, i remember once i was 14 and they weren't there, i made 15 killing El D and Al S, went back, and they were available.
Maybe it's patch-related, like the way Kunar has no Whipping Rocks books in the patchless game (ever)....

Interesting. Never reached Rapax Rift or Ferro below Lvl 15 myself. I think there is no reason for me now to try that in a new game.
Sultan : If you reached Rapax Rift with a Lvl 11 party how did you manage to kill the Lava Lord and his minions to get the key ?

You don't need to kill them to get into the Castle. Or to do anything at all important. Rescuing the prisoner is pointless.

My lowest level characters were around 11 when I made it to the castle. This was a party of four (three Bishops and a Bard). I pretty much avoided most of the canned encounters (priestesss, etc.) and made it to the teleporter. Other than the archers at the Rapax Courtyard, I just avoided that big encounter and went directly to Ferro. I would also agree with Scatter, in that the pickin's weren't that great. Fought a couple of large encounters, leveled up, set a portal, and beat it out of there till later. I usually try to get there early for the ammunition - medusa, lightning bolts, mystics, etc.

Rescuing the Rapax prisoner is not pointless, you get many points (40K?). Does it help the story? Not really.

Lowest level party I took to Ferro was Level 15/16 and I had tough time of it too, as it was one of my first parties. Didn't have an alchemist in the party either so I couldn't afford anything! lol I always take at least one party member whom can do alchemy now with any party I start and I work there alchemy up to a decent level BEFORE visiting Ferro to ensure I have the funds available to buy all his great stuff.

scatter and zig are correct, loudhy, in as much as you dont need that particular key to get to the castle/get access to ferro and/or becoming a templar. having said that, i always go back and complete everything for the experience.

thinking of ferro's items and experience, i seem to recall that i picked up quite a few levels on the way in with those lower level parties. so i probably managed to make level 14 before reaching ferro the first time. that's probably why i've never experienced the dearth of items. lucky me ;)

The lowest level I got there was 12. Quite fun, since then it was quite a challenge compared to on lvl 26.

You are all very impressive. I'm on my first time through and at lvl 16 at the rift I just got hit with 7 berserkers & 2 warlocks - and creamed. Still trying to get the hang of which spell to throw first to keep my fig from taking too many hits but that doesn't help much with those warlocks in the back. Oh, well.

Wild Rose with your bishop you should already be able to cast magic screen, although i am not sure about element shield, and those should protect you fromthe warlocks, and against the berserkers, if your fighter has good enough armor, he shouldn't have any problems.

dplax, I keep all the buffs running at highest lvl cast, and have been keeping the armour light, to keep out of the blue. But my party keeps getting tied up in web and/or paralized. Haven't been useing element shield, but have been casting superman and GA with the vik and bis. I also prefer playing continous rather than turn - more like Might & Magic. What am I doing wrong. Thanx!!!

I think in an earlier discussion it had been said that element shield is a t least as good as magic screen, so I think in a battle like that it would just give you the resistance you miss. And if you have problems, with CC then try selling some things. It might help.

dont let early experiences knock you down rose. we all went through a bit of a learning curve the first time we entered new areas. my first time into the rift i was level 18 and still got whipped. half the fun is trying new tactics and figuring out the best way to survive against the new challenges.

regarding the rift, dplax is spot on. keep your magic screen running at full blast, and at the beginning of every fight cast element shield (and maybe soul shield). you'll eventually learn which enemies are the bad@ss casters and which are likely to cast mental/divine attacking spells. then you can pull back on how you use the shields.

With my two level 11 groups, all of the great stuff was available, except the mauler (which i got only at level 17 or 18)

For me, it was some kind of 'themed party' i played twice. I called it 'infinity casters'. The party included priest, mage, and alchemist. At level 11, i stopped levelling for a long time and headed for the rift. When i had lots of XP and 3 infinity helmets and robes of rejuvination, i switched to valkyrie/samurai/ranger, and levelled them up (to level 5 in their new profession). I didn't take any other advantage of their new class (didn't melee or shoot at all), but i had quite unlimited spell points due to the regeneration. I stopped levelling at 11 since i wanted to play them as pure casters.

Wereboar where did you get the infinity helmets of and the robes of rejuvination? I thought there was only one infinity helm in the game? Also how did you avoid melee?

Ferro usually has a new set of items every 24 hours. I didn't sleep there, but set a portal, and came back sometimes to check for new stuff. Since i wanted to have enough XP for several level-ups before my class change, enough time had passed.

I didn't avoid melee in general. My party was fighter, ranger, bard, mage, priest, and alchemist. I changed the casters to the corresponding hybrids to use the helmets, but i continued to play them as pure spellcasters. The fighter however used melee, and bard and ranger used missile weapons.

It is possible to play without melee at all. I had an archery party (5 missile-only rangers, and a pure spellcaster bishop/priest). And i played a pure spellcaster party (without melee or missile use). However, in this one, i needed to summon elementals in three fights to melee for me.

Thank you for all the help. Finally got through the pack of 7 Beserkers and 2 Warlocks. The beserkers resistenses were 8o Water and 90 everything else except Fire which was 115. The warlocks were 90 Water, 140 Fire, and 115 everything else. What seemed to work best was using the Element Shield (thanks Sultan and Wereboar) and running to get behind a corner so the beserkers could be taken out without gettting hit to often by the warlock spells. The other groups since then seem more "normal" and perhaps it was just something like what happened to allstargoali with his party of four. Again thanks all.