Under a Blade's disadvantages it says bard song does not become better with levels. For a Skald it has the levels at which it does improve. For the Jester it doesn't say either one, does anyone know if a Jester's song improves with levels or stays the same? And what kind of song does just a plain bard get?

I don't know all the details, but the Jester's song starts by having a chance to confuse enemies. At higher levels, the confusion effect is replaced by others--can't remember what ones.

The documentation on the bards is definitely lacking in the manual and in-game descriptions.

I don't think the jesters bard song changes at all until you get the HLA(TOB). I think it always just confuses them no matter what level you are. Olorin's right the manuel isn't exactly overflowing with information.

ADD:Oh and the plain bards song raises morale and gives luck. It improves with levels.

[ 09-17-2003, 07:28 AM: Message edited by: Zarr ]

Improved jester song also knocks enemies unconscious if they fail their saves...

The following info is courtesy of the Rogue Rebalancing MOD. It's certainly possible that the MOD changes the various Songs' effects, but whether they change or not, at least Rogue Rebalancing lets you know what the songs DO.

Bard:
Lvl 1: Allies get -1 THAC0 and -1 Save vs. Spells
Lvl 10: -1 THAC0 and -1 to all Saves
Lvl 20: -2 THAC0 and -2 to all Saves

Blade:
Lvl 1: Allies get -1 THAC0 and -1 Save vs. Spells
(never improves, Blades cannot choose Enhanced Bard Song with Rogue Rebalancing installed, but they get a Weapons Display ability to approximate a Bard Song)

Jester:
Lvl 1: All enemies within Jester's sight range must Save vs. Spells with -4 bonus or be Confused
Lvl 15: Enemies must make another Save or be Slowed
Lvl 20: Enemies must make another Save or be Stunned
(The documentation is a little bit hazy here: It does not say if enemies get a bonus to their Saves vs. Slow or Stun, nor does it say if the Stun is added to the Song's effects, or if it simply replaces the Slow.)

Skald:
Lvl 1: Allies get -2 THAC0, +2 damage and -2 AC
Lvl 15: -4 THAC0, +4 damage and -4 AC, immune to Fear
Lvl 20: -4 THAC0, +4 damage and -4 AC, immune to Fear, Stun and Confusion

Enhanced Bard Song:
Bard gets -10 AC and +10% Magic Resistance
Allies get -4 AC, +5% MR, -4 THAC0, +4 damage, and immunity to Fear, Stun, Confusion, & Normal weapons

[ 09-18-2003, 01:58 AM: Message edited by: SixOfSpades ]

I have a Jester in my party right now and the only thing she seems to add to the party is gold. She is a good pickpocket and saves us a lot of money being able to identify everything. Her confusion song takes a back seat to casting chaos with my mage though, the only benefit being that she can sing it at will. Should I drop her and pick up H'aer Dalis? Blades seem a little more combat capable but I don't really know since I haven't really used any bards much.

Edit - Thanks Six, I was posting this while you put that one up. The Jester looks pretty good according to that and the bard HLA looks like a big help. I think I will go ahead a maybe continue with the Jester once I get that mod.

[ 09-18-2003, 01:56 AM: Message edited by: SpongeBobTheDestoyer ]

The Rogue Rebalancing MOD is, in my experience at least, the "Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde" of the BG2 MODs. It does a whole lot of really good stuff; the Thief and Bard classes and kits are now a little bit more refined than they were before, and there are many more enchanted Bucklers available now......but if you think that you might want to work for Bodhi <u>ever again,</u> do NOT install Rogue Rebalancing.

LOL, I take it Aran and co. are a bit tougher.

Now that I re-visit aVENGER's website ( http://www.gamesector.co.yu/avenger/ ), I see that "Rogue Rebalancing" and "Shadow Thief Improvements" are in fact two wholly separate components.

About RR, I have nothing but good things to say--except for some very minor issues with the Short Sword of Backstabbing.

About STI, however.....</font>

• Start with Improved Ilyich.</font>
• Instead of appearing singly, the Shadow Thieves now spawn in groups of four.</font>
• Most of them have stats roughly equal to the best you've ever rolled.</font>
• Their use of illegal and/or undroppable items is quite common.</font>
• They know precisely where your PC is at all times.</font>
• Some of them use a form of Invisibility that neither True Sight nor a Thief's Detect Illusions can dispel.</font>
• Ilyich and his gang use the Mislead cheese.</font>
• You cannot Rest in the area.</font>
• You cannot leave the area until Ilyich is dead.</font>

THAT'S Shadow Thief Improvements.

[ 09-18-2003, 04:01 AM: Message edited by: SixOfSpades ]

How is one supposed to win that?

Well, I came up with four methods:
1) Play fair--only hack in one KILLSW01.
2) Disregard the "You-can't-leave-the-area-until-Aran-Linvail-is-dead" cheese, and use the CLUA Console to teleport the party outside when they need to get their spells back.
3) Grossly abuse the weaknesses in the game engine and use the cheesiest tactics you can think of. I'm talking "Block the doorways with Invisible party members and use Area-of-Effect spells and Mislead" here. The kind of <font color=white>sugar</font> that you would be <u>ashamed</u> to pull on more legitimate enemies....like Kuroisan.
4) Do every single quest and subquest available in Chapter 2, including Watcher's Keep, then come back and pray that you've got enough EXP, spells, and items to make it out alive.

I survived by doing #2 (once) and #3 (constantly).

[ 09-19-2003, 03:17 AM: Message edited by: SixOfSpades ]

In the interests of not letting my one negative review blackball the name of the Shadow Thief Improvements MOD, I encourage other people to try it--specifically, those of you who like to try Solo, No-Reloads games through Tactics, Improved Battles and Ascension, on Insane. I am by no means a hardcore gamer (I'm on Tactics and Acension now, but I'll never use Insane, and going Solo makes very little roleplay sense to me), so those of you who enjoy extreme difficulty may have experiences vastly different from mine. For instance, the README.TXT for Shadow Thief Improvements makes working for Bodhi sound about as difficult as the Windspear Hills. So I would be interested in how (or how well) other gamers handled this--and since Dundee is compiling a list of MOD Reviews, I'm sure he would too.