Oh and about thoose laws of copywright in the Australia, they look somewhat like what we in the EU will have soon.

Scrap the digital industry completely, don't sell many MP3 players, the KISS recorders with harddrives to tape TV shows will be illegal as well ;)

And not to mention that it doens't struck out against the filesharers but the ones that are paying for the material, as usual with all these new laws.
They hit the ones that are still legally abiding.
Problematic as the increase of illegal filesharing increases when the price goes up on the material you buy.

Yorick, a small question; how much do you pay for a CD in Australia? And how much of that goes to the artist? I am a bit intrigues since following the numbers crunched down here in Sweden, the biggest thief of the artis's profit is the company that releases their album here...

Alot of artists have moved to sell their music online instead or via for instance Apple's music store instead and cut the middle man out.

<font color="#C4C1CA">
Actually, that's quite common. Have you never had a free sample product and never bought the product as a result? I have (as many others have done) and the sampling system works or producers would have given it up years ago.
</font></font>[/QUOTE]You completely missed my point.

The mp3 is not a SAMPLE, it is the ACTUAL PRODUCT. I am well aware of sampling products. I simply said, who offers something and then asks you to pay for it?

How ludicrous would it be to ask Chewbacca to pay for the mp3 he downloaded now that he's heard it? It defys reason.

Again, an mp3 is not a sample, it is the actual product. A sample would be one listen. Radio play for example is a sample. You don't own a copy of the product you can listen to at any time. When you purchase music, that is what you own. The ability to listen to it whenever you like.

How was this point missed?


You again completely missed the point that live shows promote albums. Completely ignored it. Singles on radio give an act expose. More singles = more albums. When you go to see a big band, they play the whole album. Songs from old albums. Album sales are built on album tours. It's a plain truth. No secret.

Look, I am getting sick of this discussion. Either do your research on the way the industry has worked until now or stop posting on this subject. I am not here to educate you on how the industry has worked.

The argument that mp3 sharing leads to increased live work is irrelevent. The overwhelming majority of albums are NOT released to generate live work. Live work is done to promote albums. That is the way it has been for decades. Since artists were given royalties.

Mp3 sharing is taking the PRODUCT. There is no point in me doing a tour of Ecuador to promote something anyone who has heard of me already owns. Ludicrous.

Think about it. International tours are few and far between in Australia because there are not enough record sales in Australia for a touring act to justify touring there. Common knowledge Skunk. Tours cost. Playing live costs. Travel, personelle. Touring costs more than albums do.

Please, do you research.

This is quite plainly unbelievable. I cannot believe you would attempt to correct me about my own vocation in my own country, contradicting my personal experiences.

I am in two minds about whether to even write a reply. I will be brief.

The Australian artist competes - in their own country - against product from America and England, that has vast amounts of money behind it. When I brought out my first record, it was taken to radio. At the same time, the same record company were taking U2s Actung Baby to radio, and Brian Adams "Waking up the Neighbours". Other companies and other artists were releasing product at the same time.

In all 50 singles a week were being sent to a handful of radio stations that added ONE SONG a week.

No prizes guessing what happened.

Yet, the same albums that I was competing against were what subsidised my album. Without the company that released the records into a very small market, the album would not exist.

We (the Australian music industry) faced off a law that attempted to completely erode copyright. It would have allowed parallell imports - bringing down CD sales, but more importantly removing the incentive for major record companies to invest in Australian music altogether.

Australian music simply doesn't have the market, hence the dollars, to generate anything near the publicity a record made offshore does.

There is the argument, that our comparitivly small population has a sucessful artistic export culture because of that competition. It means to simply get to level 1 we must have skills and product that compete with guys on level 58. At age 19, I was not competing with U2s first record, but U2s 7th.

It's a simple reality.

The situation would have been worse, far worse, had Mp3 theft been around then. The album would not have been made at all. I would not have learned what I did during that time. None of the music I have made since would exist.


Yeah it is. That's reality.

Is a DJ able to make safety copies of his records? What happens if his record collection is stolen. Yes it's a big deal.

I have had my car broken into. I have had CDs stolen. CDs are valuable yes.

The answer?
1. Don't keep your collection in your car.
2. Keep a small amount of CDs you are listening to in your car.
3. Get the collection insured.

Nothing gives you the right to violate copyright. Being able to listen to an artists work is a privilege, not a right. If you can;t take care of your collection, that's not the artists fault. The copyright law which protects him/her shouldn't be revoked just because you're worried about losing $1000. They can have millions taken from them in your world.

In any case, in your world the CDs have no value anyway. No music has value in your world. It can be attained by anyone who demands it, for no cost.

That is why this whole thing disgusts and angers me. You take what I bleed for, what takes so much personally to create, and reduce the whole thing to zero value.


Who cares? How many records does that sell? In the scheme of things I would prefer you never recommend my music to anyone of your friends, because you have no regard for it and would have no hesitation in stealing me blind. And yes I am independent now, no I have no record company at the moment, yes I need exposure, no I do not want nor care for your car-ride recommendation, if it's the result of you thumbing your nose at my copyright.

Do you know how many sales me giving away music online has resulted in?
None.
Do you know how much money I've made from peoples online recommendations? None. How much do I hope or expect to see from that? Nothing.
Am I bitter?
No.
There is no point. You've completely misjudged the plight of the modern musician.


Created by music "fans" that bought their records Skunk. All music companies do is present product to the public. The record buying public decides who makes it and who doesn't.

In any case, as I said. TASTE in no excuse for theft. You don't have the righ to refuse to pay for a meal you just ate, simply because you decided you didn't like it.

[ 02-09-2004, 09:07 PM: Message edited by: Yorick ]

CDs are $20 - $30 AUD and an artist may see $3. The writers share is around $3 or so as well.

The biggest thief is the mp3 filesharer who doesn;t give ANYTHING to the artist. At least the record company give 8 - 15% to the artist AND pay for the record, AND give them money to live on while they are making the record (advances)

Loans require interest do they not? Who gives money upfront at huge risk, and doesn't require profits to cover that risk?

Records are huge risks.

Artists also have the CHOICE not to sign record deals. We do sign them KNOWING how much we are getting, and offset royalties against the size of the advance. The bigger the advance the lower the royalty. For artsist that are a "sure thing" they obviously have bigger negotiating power.

CHOICE. Mp3 thieves remove our choice and decide for us that we can't enter into a legal agreement with someone who bankrolls our records.

As having it take four years to get a second album out.

<font color=deepskyblue> I just thought that this little bit of news may be relevant. It seems like Chewys sad expierance is not isolated. </font>

BBC news

US retailer Tower Records has filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection after illegal music downloading and heavy competition hit revenues.
The bankruptcy filings for Tower and its privately held parent MTS Inc comes after loss-making Tower was unable to find a suitable buyer.

Tower, which has 93 stores, has been unable to cope with competition from digital downloading and file copying.

MTS listed more than $100m of assets and $100m of debts.

The company closed its UK stores last year, but still has international outlets in Asia, Latin America and Israel.

<font color=deepskyblue> As mentioned before, Things have to change in the industry quicksmart... Give the record buying public what they want. That may well be letting them download MP3 for a small fee and giving permission to make one (1) only copy for there car or stereo. Whatever the rights or wrongs are, staying still aint an option. [img]graemlins/1ponder.gif[/img] </font>

You're a good man Wellard.

As having it take four years to get a second album out. </font>[/QUOTE]Erm... Actually, this is her third album in four years' time. Not to mention the fact that she had to deal with a form of cancer along the way as well, so I'm not even surprised by the hiatus she took between the release of her second and third album. A hiatus in no way longer than what most Top 40 artists take nowadays, in fact.
But what I'm referring to, are there any documents or announcements in which Anastacia or her management made any of the claims you're referring to, that they'd concluded that her career was somehow "ruined"? Or are you simply taking conclusions yourself now, based on personal observations or insiders' information we're not familiar with? [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 02-10-2004, 04:25 AM: Message edited by: Grojlach ]

Thanks for the reply Yorick, now I have to check how much the Aussie dollar i worth [img]smile.gif[/img]
Oki, 1 Aussie dollar equals 5.58 SKr. That means a CD is hmm... 116 - 167 SKR.

Here the prices range from 139 - 200 SKr roughly. (Depending alot upon the company releasing it and also where you buy it.)

And well of course, the biggest thief is the one that doesn't pay at all Yorick, my poor wording.
I didn't write out all of my train of thought.

Personally I download alot of music, the music I like I buy, cause I guess I am just one of thoose who wants to have the CD in my hand, and I hate irregular ripped MP3's anyway. I want to make my own MP3 rips to listen to on my computer.

During X-mus there was a huge sale on CD's, the CD orices were lowered to 99 Skr for one, 179 for 2 and so on. The increase in sales were drastic ;)
Now this is one thing I like and it showed clearly that the price on the CD's are directly connected to the sales. (Easy marketing really). Also the latest Metallica album had a special little code where you could log ono a website for alot of goodies, came with a DVD and you could download the MP3's from their site and download images and more. Increasing what you got for your money ALOT.

Both are good initiatives and that I think is the best way to battle piracy. Messing with paying customars by introducing and develope CD protections that last for about two days are not the way.

Ok Grolj. My apologies. I have my facts wrong.
They were based on information I read a couple of years ago, that detailed the HUGE amounts of downloads of her single "I'm Outta Love" and how that translated into vastly reduced album sales.

They were also based on discussions with a friend and cowriter of mine - LaMenga Kafi - who co-wrote "Paid My Dues" which I believe was a hit in Europe.

As I hadn't heard her second album appear in popular US culture, (and simply got confused as to which album "Paid my dues" was on) I made the (incorrect) assumption that her career had gone down the toilet.

I am glad that I am wrong and that a woman in possession of such an astounding voice is still making music. Of course wiping egg off my face is never enjoyable, so for that I'm not so pleased. ;)

Yeah, well I still love ya! :D ;)