I may disagree with you on paladins, K., but you're right on about Antipaladins. It's a stupid idea. Good and Evil aren't like pieces on a chess board... evil doesn't cooperate, or work as a team, unless it's LE, in which case it's a really sick, sadistic, Mommy-dearest kind of team, motivated by fear and hate alone. (or else a bunch of otherwise good people totally brainwashed, as in the socialists of Germany and Russia before ww2). Evil backbites, betrays, sells out, deserts, and can otherwise be counted on to do the selfish thing at any given opportunity.

That's why Menzobarrazan doesn't control all of Toril...

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Morgeruat:


Sorry to break it to you, but he was Chaotic Neutral, here's a clipping from the Villains LorebookHERE. Free for download by TSR,
Right Here<hr></blockquote>


Just because he is chaotic neutral it doesnt mean he is evil. the only truly evil alignment is chaotic evil. If you have a look at the descriptions of all the alignments you will see this.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Kaleban:
A true paladin is an eternal optimist. Combatting dragons, demons and hellspawn, paladins do not flinch at the sight of evil.

The thing that distinguishes a paladin from a run of the mill warrior (in role-playing terms) is his commitment to the fight against evil in all its forms and the code of Chivalry. A true paladin does not start fights, but he does end them.

The animosity Keldorn feels for Viconia is unwarranted, as some of you have hinted at, Viconia may not always be evil, given the chance. And that's why paladins are interesting characters, they crusade for good, but do not stoop to evil methods to accomplish their goals.

A paladin does not believe the end justifies the means, he believes that the means to an end can be as or more important than the end itself.

The point? Keldorn does not give Viconia a chance. This runs counter to a paladin's code of honor and the tenets of paladinhood. I may have read too much into this, but wouldn't an experienced adventurer, not an average peasant, know that allies and friends can be found in the most unlikely places, and to dismiss or kill out of hand gets you no where?

P.S. In both PnP AD&D and the BG series, it is possible to change your alignment. Your actions determine who you are, not a belief in a God. Using the "alignment determines everything" argument is fallacious and ignorant.<hr></blockquote>


Drizzt nearly went down the path of the drow, on a raid on a Elven settlement. If he had participated in the killing he would no doubt would have become a evil drow. Yet he denied this and in a sense his alignment changed.

Kaleban spoke right for the true noble paladin
the wise, noble, gentle, couregous man who'd give up his life for the good he swore to defend and wouldn't hurt anyone simply because he or she is aligmented as 'evil'

the end does not justify means. how well said, that is what a true paladin is all about. finding strength to go on in what he believes in his heart to be true, not what the popular opinions have to say on the matter.

a true paladin does nto start fight, he puts an end to it. wise words

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by 250:
Kaleban spoke right for the true noble paladin
the wise, noble, gentle, couregous man who'd give up his life for the good he swore to defend and wouldn't hurt anyone simply because he or she is aligmented as 'evil'

the end does not justify means. how well said, that is what a true paladin is all about. finding strength to go on in what he believes in his heart to be true, not what the popular opinions have to say on the matter.

a true paladin does nto start fight, he puts an end to it. wise words<hr></blockquote>


Yeah a TRUE paladin, but a lot of paladins arent.

CN is evil now? lol

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Radiant_Memphit:



Yeah a TRUE paladin, but a lot of paladins arent.<hr></blockquote>

so your point is? Keldorn is not a true paladin in this sense then

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Mordenheim:
CN is evil now? lol<hr></blockquote>

no chaotic nuetral isn't evil, but the listing was under drow of menzoberranzen from the villains handbook, probably because as a deceased character he didn't really fit into the heroes lorebook, it's just where he got stuck, he is by no means evil.

that isn't what i was trying to say at all, just saying he wasn't good

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Radiant_Memphit:



Just because he is chaotic neutral it doesnt mean he is evil. the only truly evil alignment is chaotic evil. If you have a look at the descriptions of all the alignments you will see this.<hr></blockquote>

Ummmmmm.... sorry, but you've obviously never looked at the Ravenloft campaign world, not very many of the domain lords are truly Chaotic Evil, many of the most evil are lawful evil, such as Count Strahd Von Zarovich, and Azalin Rex, the lich king, granted some of them are very much chaotic evil, like Lord Soth, if you want a look into the face of evil, pick up some of the ravenloft books(campaign material, or the books about strahd) and you'll see how truly evil a lawful being can be, or read the entry about Baatezu [lawful evil](devils) in the monster manual (I think Memnoch posted it) they are the arch-enemies of the Tanarri [chaotic evil](demons), and they are lawful evil, they are strictly regimented and truly oppressive, nuetral evil is just self advancement, at any cost, if obeying the laws helps your goal then good, if breaking laws leads more directly to the goal then that's the course they'll follow.

The biggest single definition of alignment, for most creatures in D&D that I've noticed is how much they value the lives of other, ie, a lawful good fighter, wouldn't slaughter a peasant for being irritating(neeber), however an evil character would have no qualms about it, a lawful evil character would just make sure no one saw it, or could prove that it was them that did it.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Russ:


Yes, you're a perfectly wonderful neutral good paladin.... ;)<hr></blockquote>
No, Neutral characters belive that there are things to be said on both sides, like those darned Harpers. My Paladin oath reads:"I will aid the oppressed, befriend the friendless, strive for the greater good in all my actions. Whoever seeks my aid, I will grant it solely on the basis of their need, regardless of any monetary considerations.Before taking any action which might involve harm to any, I will seek to know the rightness of the cause." That doesn't say ANYTHING about whomever is administering the civil law.