<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by andy the assasin:
I don't use keldorn either, in fact i don't even like plaidins, they all seem too good and if wanted a good fighter then i would use a fighter. Plus vicconia's too good to be in a party with people like keldorn.<hr></blockquote>LOL, Andy, you may not like Paladins, but some paladins may appreciate you! Russ, while I respect your views, and the eloquence with which you present them, I'm going to have to take Kaleban's side. A Paladin should do what he/she feels is right. It's the higher law, rather than the earthly law, that he/she obeys.

Actually there are lawful evil paladins, there called anti-paladins, amazing name huh lol. But all paladins are lawful no matter wether good or evil.

anti-paladins is so damn lame, i hate that name. there has got to be a better name to describe a well disciplined evil holy warrior.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Darc_Mind:
anti-paladins is so damn lame, i hate that name. there has got to be a better name to describe a well disciplined evil holy warrior.<hr></blockquote>

Lawful Evil anti-paladins are only in the Birthright setting, the originally realeased Anti-Paladin was released July of 1980 in dragon magazine, they were Chaotic Evil, and about as nasty as they come...

I once sent one with his Unholy Reaver, his Nightmare mount, and his full plate of blending (3 speeds ;) ) +2 after a party, there wasn't much left of them, and the Paladin was the only one who did very much good in the fight... well and the mage who reduced a boulder (reduced boulder fired from a sling hits dispel magic field of Unholy Reaver = semi-crushed anti-paladin)

ne1 remember the wretched neomages in Darksun. I believe they were called Defilers. If there was a diametrically opposed class to the paladin, this would be it. Paladins are warriors of good that fight evil and spread the good will of whatever diety they serve. Defilers were mages that had fast experience level but they destroyed the very land they walked on, just by casting spells. They had the requirement to be Evil. Not sure if it was lawful or chaotic or open to choice. The closer in this case is the fact that priests worshipped the elements, there where no gods and no paladins to serve them on darksun. And the whole of the world, save a few undiscovered places where completely drained of life. obviously b/c defilers where running rampant on the planet.

I don't think Kedorn is a racist. He hates the Drow because they are almost entirely evil. There are exceptions, but in general the Drow are evil.

IMO, A paladin wouldn't be able to travel with a Red Dragon or a demon because it's his duty to destroy that evil. A paladin wouldn't try to see the good in either creature, or hope that he could change them. They are evil, and it is his duty to destroy them. A paladin's idea of showing an evil creature "the light" is letting them see the sun/moon reflect off his blade before he delivers the deathblow. It's the same with Viconia. She is not just an evil character, she is a priestess of evil, and to a paladin, would be no less a monster.

On the arguments of lawful vs chaotic.

I believe and have always played lawful as "strict, orderly, and regimented" in actions. Less following the law of the land, than following a "higher/personal" set of standards. A lawful good thief doesn't follow the laws of the land (picking pockets and backstabbing aren't really legal actions), but he follows a strict, orderly, regiment, maybe set forth by his guild.

Chaotic characters follow whichever path works best for them at the time. Maybe obeying the laws and using them to their advantage in one instant and doing the exact opposite the next time. They don't really follow any set of rules, but will use whichever rules/laws that work to their advantage in a given situation. They may follow one method for a bit, while it suits their needs, but really don't care one way or the other. Whatever works!

Some of my friends think my idea of chaotic is more neutral, but I think neutral characters try to balance their use of methods.

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>It's the higher law, rather than the earthly law, that he/she obeys.<hr></blockquote>

Yes, you're a perfectly wonderful neutral good paladin.... ;)

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by khazadman:
no i doubt that zakzafein was anything BUT good.he allowed himself to be sacrificed in order to save the life of his son.the father died for the percieved sins of the son.he just lacked the strength of will to break with the drow of his city.<hr></blockquote>

Sorry to break it to you, but he was Chaotic Neutral, here's a clipping from the Villains LorebookHERE. Free for download by TSR,
Right Here

Can ye be a Drow in TOB??? someone spoil it for me and tell me all about it!
~ThERaGe~

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Darc_Mind:
anti-paladins is so damn lame, i hate that name. there has got to be a better name to describe a well disciplined evil holy warrior.<hr></blockquote>

On the subject of anti-paladins...

In most fantasy settings/campaigns/worlds/ideas, the forces of good rally around very powerful individuals who shine like beacons, whereas the forces of evil are lesser in strength, but much greater in number (i.e. orcs, goblins, kobolds, Stormtroopers...).

The idea of the anti-paladin so destroys this fragile balance, that it is one of the more rediculous concepts. Evil doesn't like stand-up fights, it prefers sneaky, cowardly deception. Sure, there's the main bad guy which the hero must confront, but not before wading through legions of minor enemies. Which weakens the hero just enough to give th villain a chance of success, which in most fantasy is either bungled or thwarted.