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Old 02-18-2003, 01:55 PM   #41
Bungleau
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Join Date: October 29, 2001
Location: Western Wilds of Michigan
Posts: 11,752
BTW, America did have its influx of puritans trying to escape persecution in the UK, as I recall.

So they came here and persecuted all those who didn't follow their beliefs... and the pot called the kettle black.

Where I live, there's a town nearby populated with dutch settlers who left Holland centuries ago to escape religious persecution. Want to guess which group is the most vocal and demanding when it comes to things that require a little liberal thinking?

It's no coincidence that in that same town (Holland, by name) the biggest firepot of Harry Potter book censorship grew up. In fact, we had bookstores ban the book without even reading it, just 'cause someone said it was bad.

Without even reading it! For those folks, I have another book I suggest banning because it involves sex (hetero, homo, and premarital), murder, rape, fratricide, magical spellcasting, demons, devils, and resisting authority and leadership. Pretty nasty stuff, all in all. And they let four and five year olds hear this stuff! By eight, they're expected to read it themselves!

Want that stuff happening in your town? Most people don't. Does your opinion change if I tell you that book is the Bible?

Yep, all that is in there.

Censors. Bah!
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Old 02-18-2003, 02:24 PM   #42
Cerek the Barbaric
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Join Date: October 29, 2001
Location: North Carolina
Age: 54
Posts: 3,257
Quote:
Originally posted by Bungleau:
BTW, I don't think that boys should be allowed to get away with things either. I've got a son just two years behind my daughter, and I'll be expecting him to control his hormones as well. Don't ask me how, yet, because I'm still working on it... understanding of just what the implications and responsibilities of his actions will probably be a cornerstone of it.
The answer to this is easy, Bungleau - you simply have him memorize your 8 Rules for Dating My Daughter.

Then remind him that the father of his girlfriend probably has the same list at his house...but that he might not be as "open minded" and forgiving about them as you are.
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Old 02-18-2003, 02:44 PM   #43
AzRaeL StoRmBlaDe
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Join Date: October 11, 2001
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Let your girlfriend take care of it, I wouldn't get involved. She would know how tot talk to her parents to smooth things over. If the dad gets all up in your face about it, say you are sorry to deceieve him, but explain to him that you just passed out watching movies, and that your GF did what she did because she knew that he would flip out, and she didn't want to worry him needlessly. Just try and reason with him. If that doesn't work you can always hire a ninja to get the job done. j/k about that last part.
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Old 02-18-2003, 02:46 PM   #44
Timber Loftis
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Join Date: July 11, 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
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Boy, after reading this thread - which has become a mini-treatise on teenage dating, I've decided when I have kids they are simply not allowed to go out until they go to college.
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Old 02-18-2003, 02:50 PM   #45
The Cavalier
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Join Date: November 4, 2002
Location: White Cloud, MI
Age: 32
Posts: 165
Quote:
Originally posted by Epona:
Slightly off the direct topic of the thread, I find it interesting all those people who have mentioned shotguns and pond-scum messing with people's daughters etc - that type of comment.

I find it interesting, because that attitude amongst fathers is not very prevalent in England. If my dad didn't like the person I was seeing at that age he would not have said anything about it, and I've never been grounded in my life. He never would have got angry if I was out with a boy, and would never have been thinking 'leave my little girl alone you scum' - as long as he knew where I was it was OK.

Danged americans.

Quote:
Originally posted by Epona:

They never checked out the boy's job prospects lol (something I find a ridiculous concept!) or interrogated them.

Why does everyone seem to think having a job now decides how you will fare later in life?

Two years ago, when I met shely, I had been dating a tall, skinny, extremely hot blonde, still one of the hottest girls in school, and we had LOTS of the
S-E-X. But she had ZERO personality. Then I met shely, who blew away EVERYTHING I'd ever known about girls. She had the most beautiful brown hair and eyes, and to this day I've never seen a girl with prettier hair or eyes. She was alittle on the heavy side (not much, just slightly), and lower on the social rung than my previous girlfriend, but she was some much more. she was a person.
The thing is, she stayed the night, and part of the reason I liked the idea, is because it would allow me to prove that I DIDN'T wan tto have sex with her. sure, we could have, but I just enjoyed sleeping with her in my arms.
Anyway, for two years, my ex bugged me "get a job" "your not gonna go anywhere in life if you don't start working" "blah blah blah". Well, two weeks with shely made me want to get a job (I guess what I'm saying is shely's dad said I wasn't gonna go anywhere in life, so have to get one anyway. This is why I agree with Epona's above statement).

Well, now my ex is in an unhappy relationship, needs to get rides from her "boyfriend" to work in his broke ass truck. she is still working the same dead end job. And now I have a great job and just bought a 2000 mustang.

I guess what I'm saying is Michelle means alot to me, and I don't know why people think having a job now will alter what you become in the future. in my little hick town, most people who get these jobs KEEP these jobs...
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Old 02-18-2003, 02:54 PM   #46
Timber Loftis
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Join Date: July 11, 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 11,916
Quote:
Originally posted by Bungleau:
As far as the whole boy/girl issue goes, it's definitely not fairly balanced. A guy can go sow his wild oats, and if he decides to move on and ignore any evidence of past mistakes (like children), it's much easier, at least in my perspective. The girl, rightly or wrongly, seems to be the one who gets "stuck" raising the kid(s). And yes, adoption is an option, but that's another thread entirely. [img]smile.gif[/img]
Well, somewhat true. But, child support orders can come back to haunt the guy later. Image when he's 28 being told he owes $50k in back child support, payable to the gov't, and installments better start soon or he's going to jail for 6 mos. This is what my wife does every day at her job. But, there's still the societal impression: young women are disdained for being slutty, but young men are applauded for it. I dunno. Guess all I can say is I took to the stereotypical mode like a fish to water.

Quote:

I remember from my youth the occasional promising of the moon, with no intent to deliver on the promise. Phrases like "Sure, I'll still love you in the morning" have become jokes because they're so prevalent.
To quote the great Sam Kinison: "Sure, *snicker* I love you. Now, roll over."

Quote:
[qb/]BTW, I don't think that boys should be allowed to get away with things either. I've got a son just two years behind my daughter, and I'll be expecting him to control his hormones as well.[/QB]
Amen. [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img]

God, guys, I've never seen so many sagacious folks crawl outta the woodwork to give advice.

[ 02-18-2003, 01:56 PM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]
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Old 02-18-2003, 03:25 PM   #47
MagiK
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Posts: n/a
Quote:
Originally posted by The Cavalier:
Long story short, she stayed the night last night (we did NOT have sex, we just slept after watching some movies), and lied to her parents about it. Her dad found out and he is a real hardass and he called me this morning just after she left and he said "So, this is how it's gonna start. Lies and Deception?" (We just started going out, but we've known each other for two years). I just went with her and her father to church yesterday, before she stayed the night. She just got out of a relationship with an asshole, but he came from money, so I made it look like she was slummin' in the first place, but now I'm SURE her dad hates me. I can give more details of the relationship if needed, but my main question is:

What do I do now that I'm sure her father isn't very happy with me? DO I just go up to him and apologize or what?

ANY suggestions would be nice. there has got to be some fathers here, am I right?
I haven't read anyone elses repy, but I have to say, from the start you made a major mistake in classifying a father as a "real hardass" some day when you are the father of a daughter, lets just see how hard an ass you are. If you want to fix things you kiss his ass, and quit lieing and be an honest decent human being in his eyes.

Just the thoughts of one father...of course you only get one strike with me so you would be out of luck if it were my daughter.
 
Old 02-18-2003, 04:03 PM   #48
The Hunter of Jahanna
Emerald Dragon
 

Join Date: September 25, 2001
Location: NY , NY
Age: 56
Posts: 960
Dont tell her father anything,Cavalier. It isnt any of his buisness. You dont owe him any kind of explanation or apology. If it has been o.k. for you to be friends with this girl for the last 2 years, it should still be o.k. for you to be friends with her. If her parents are going to throw a tantrum over 1 sleep over then maybe they are the ones with the problem. If they had a problem with you then they should have said something 2 years ago.
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Old 02-18-2003, 04:34 PM   #49
Bungleau
40th Level Warrior
 

Join Date: October 29, 2001
Location: Western Wilds of Michigan
Posts: 11,752
To respond in bits and pieces...

I've seen the "Eight Rules" before, and while they're not mine, I endorse them wholeheartedly. Okay, maybe halfheartedly... I don't have an electric staple gun (but I do have a manual one).

Cerek, my boy may well have the whole eight rules memorized by the time he dates. Your suggestion of reminding him that the girl's father may not be as understanding as me... I like that. A nice way to set expectations.

And TL, when you do have kids, you'll realize that college is really too early for them to be dating anyway... [img]tongue.gif[/img]

As for the child support thing, I agree; but if you're starting at 16 or 17, what amount of child support are you going to see? By the time Junior is 18, Dad is now 34-35, and may finally be making some decent money. While child support is a reality, it doesn't hit as hard as one would like.

And to wrap it all up, you've got to remember that this isn't a one-shot game, at least as I read it. Cavalier is really enamored with his girl, and would like to continue dating. Perhaps the future holds something more, or perhaps not; at 16 and 17, there are a whole lot of futures available.

If their future involves each other, then good old dad will still be part of the picture (unless he dies or something, which is another matter entirely). So dad's view of Cavalier will be colored by this incident for a while to come. By coming clean and talking with dad about this (no matter how scary it may be, and as a dad, I know just what kinds of buttons to push to increase the scare factor), Cavalier has a much better chance of getting dad to see things from his point of view.

Ignore dad, or pretend he doesn't exist, and things won't get any better. In fact, they'll get worse, and parental ultimatums like "If you want me to help pay for college, stay away from him" are real possibilities. You'll get little to no support from her parents with any future activities.

Pay attention to dad, recognize and appreciate his views and position, and you'll convert him to an ally much more quickly.

Put yourself in the dad's position. He's known his daughter for 16 years, you for two. And those years aren't the same; he's seen a lot more of his daughter these last two years than he has of you. How does he know that you're not one of those guys who wants to just have sex with his daughter and turn around and leave her if the natural consequence (of a baby) happens? Fact is, he really doesn't, or at least doesn't at this moment.

While revenge is a dish best served cold, crow is best eaten warm. Fess up to the situation and deal with it quickly, and you can move on from there and become "Cavalier". Don't deal with it, and forever in her dad's mind you'll be "the guy who slept with Michelle that time".

As a dad, I don't want to be a harda$$. But my job is not to be liked by my children's dates. My job is to take care of my family (which does include letting them make mistakes). I care a whole lot less about whether a boyfriend or girlfriend likes me than whether my kids can make good decisions, whether they be right or not. When you have kids of your own, you may find yourself in the same boat.
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Old 02-18-2003, 05:12 PM   #50
Timber Loftis
40th Level Warrior
 

Join Date: July 11, 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 11,916
Quote:
Originally posted by Bungleau:
As for the child support thing, I agree; but if you're starting at 16 or 17, what amount of child support are you going to see? By the time Junior is 18, Dad is now 34-35, and may finally be making some decent money. While child support is a reality, it doesn't hit as hard as one would like.
..............
While revenge is a dish best served cold, crow is best eaten warm.
[img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] great post. I have two [img]graemlins/offtopic.gif[/img] comments.
1. Child support can be RETRO-active. Meaning, when she drags his butt into court 10 years later, he'll have to pay for the whole life's worth of child support - unless he paid from the beginning, and assuming she made regular requests/demands that he pay. That's where the $50K support orders I referenced come from. In most states, support is about 20% or so of income - so unless the guys a CEO, it would not amount to that much unless aggregated over dozens of years.
2. I have never heard, and absolutely adore, the revenge/crow comment.
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