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Old 02-18-2003, 09:11 AM   #31
Callum Kerr
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I have it! The ultimate contraceptive... decribe graphically to your kids how they were concieved... it will cure them of the desire for life... [img]graemlins/blueblink.gif[/img]
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Old 02-18-2003, 11:12 AM   #32
Epona
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Bungleau, interesting post thank you.

I suppose in England there are quite liberal attitudes towards sex, which makes a difference.

One thing I find odd about your post is the thought that teenage boys are a bundle of hormones, and girls are not. Because let me assure you we were Also the idea that girls need protecting from sex where as boys of the same age do not - yet girls are generally more mature than boys of a similar age. I suppose it's that I find odd (and slightly patronising, no offense) - that boys are able to make up their own minds about what they want to do, and girls need protecting so they must not be allowed to make up their own minds, because they may make the 'wrong' decision.

It's the same thinking that leads to derogatory opinions, which are still widespread, of women who enjoy sex and have had several partners - 'oh she's easy', 'bury her in a Y shape coffin' or 'what a slag, cheap tart, she'll go with anybody' - that kind of thing, whereas if a bloke does the same it's seen as normal and no-one raises an eyebrow. Surely it's time to move on from the outdated notion that girls/women are somehow dirty or immoral if they experiment or enjoy sex - the days of girls staying virgins until they pass from their father's control to that of a carefully selected husband are long gone.

Just to be clear that I'm talking about girls and boys over the age of consent, which in the UK is 16.

Sorry if I've derailed this thread somewhat, this is an issue that's always annoyed me!
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Old 02-18-2003, 11:28 AM   #33
Timber Loftis
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Quote:
Originally posted by Callum Kerr:
I have it! The ultimate contraceptive... decribe graphically to your kids how they were concieved... it will cure them of the desire for life... [img]graemlins/blueblink.gif[/img]
Um.. interestingly enough, in my wife's Catholic High School they did one better - sex ed. was a simple video of a live birth. Leave it to the nuns, man.
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Old 02-18-2003, 11:40 AM   #34
harleyquinn
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Quote:
Originally posted by Timber Loftis:
Quote:
Originally posted by Callum Kerr:
I have it! The ultimate contraceptive... decribe graphically to your kids how they were concieved... it will cure them of the desire for life... [img]graemlins/blueblink.gif[/img]
Um.. interestingly enough, in my wife's Catholic High School they did one better - sex ed. was a simple video of a live birth. Leave it to the nuns, man. [/QUOTE]My parents said I asked when I was about 3, so my Dad told me, and my Mom says I thought about it for a few minutes and then looked at them and said "That's disgusting!". Then a few months later when my brother asked (during an extendend family dinner, no less), my parents said I looked at him and said, "Don't ask, it's gross!"
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Old 02-18-2003, 11:55 AM   #35
RevRuby
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video of a live birth? the catholic school i went to had the sex ed of religion class "your god says no, so don;t do it or you're going to hell!!!!!" most of the girls did not understand one thing about birthcontrol, because no one taught them. fortunately i went to public school most of my life so i knew the risks and chances, and the methods to avoid mommy-hood. i was one of the last in my graduating class to loose my virginity. because i knew the facts of how condoms don;t work, not just that god doesn't like it.

but as far as my kids go, i just have ot tell them about pregnancy and birth. i had a bad tuime being pg with lyn and a worse time giving birth to justi. with justi i had 36 hours of pure hell!and my pg with lyn.....let's just put it this way, nathan asks why i might want to go through t hat again!

i don;t think dating rules are bad, but i think they should be a colabborative effort between child and parents, and possibly change with boyfriends. for example- first boyfriend is clean cut, skinny, and kinda nerdy- ok they can stay out til 930. second boyfriend is peirced, with greasy hair, leather jacket, and a vacant look in his eyes- no later the 8! just my opinion.

now for the subject at hand- talk to her dad now!!! sooner is better than later. ask to sit down with her parents (step mom and mom included) and her to create dating rules. when to be home, how much time should be given to call before being late, where she is and isn't allowed to be with you (like bedrooms are off limits, the mall across town is too far, etc.) and when you get a job, ask to remake the rules to still fit in time with her around your work schedule. jmo
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Old 02-18-2003, 12:19 PM   #36
Epona
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Sheesh! RevRuby, if at age 16 or 17 my parents had tried that with me I'd just have moved out. Fortunately they had more sense, I've always been a responsible person cos I was brought up that way, I was allowed to do more or less what I wanted, and it didn't result in prison/pregnancy/drug abuse/running wild.

At what age do you see kids as adult? Here it's pretty much 16 - there are still things you can't do (drive, drink in a pub, vote), but at that age if you don't like what your parents tell you to do you have the option of leaving.
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Old 02-18-2003, 12:23 PM   #37
Timber Loftis
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I think kids begin to become adults around age 20. Prior to that, their bodies are adult, but not their minds. Around age 20 you really start defining yourself. By age 25, you are basically the "who" you are going to be. From there it's just refinement. MHO, of course.

Like you, I demanded a lot of freedom around age 16 - and took it when it wasn't given. Looking at 16 year olds now, I realize how uncontrollably STUPID I was. This age, 16-20, is the age when you want all of the freedom, but lack any of society's real responsibilities. That's why there's little better for you to do with yourself than drink, do drugs, vandalize property, get in fights, have indiscriminate sex, and, oh yeah, go to school a bit.
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Old 02-18-2003, 12:32 PM   #38
RevRuby
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Quote:
Originally posted by Epona:
Sheesh! RevRuby, if at age 16 or 17 my parents had tried that with me I'd just have moved out. Fortunately they had more sense, I've always been a responsible person cos I was brought up that way, I was allowed to do more or less what I wanted, and it didn't result in prison/pregnancy/drug abuse/running wild.

At what age do you see kids as adult? Here it's pretty much 16 - there are still things you can't do (drive, drink in a pub, vote), but at that age if you don't like what your parents tell you to do you have the option of leaving.
as has been pointed out to me, america was first populated by puritans, and so even tho it has been howmany years since then, we have more conservative veiws than the british, and most europeans in general.

as far as kids leaving home here, most parents ivite them to leave, but uinless they are legall emancipated in courts if the youth fails to go to school, or does something really bad the parents are held responsible. legal voting age here is 18, drinking is 21, so one is not adult to the legal system until then. even as an 18 yr going to a regular clinic for birth control it is required for your parents to be told, unless you are a mom, then you are an 18 yo emancipated adult. make sense? no, but it is and children need protected. yes they need to make their own mistakes but, some mistakes are better learned from as an adult
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Old 02-18-2003, 12:46 PM   #39
Bungleau
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Epona,

If the teenaged girls were also bundles of hormones, how come they never let it be known when I was around? [img]smile.gif[/img] Okay, I admit my general geekiness back then, but still...

As far as the whole boy/girl issue goes, it's definitely not fairly balanced. A guy can go sow his wild oats, and if he decides to move on and ignore any evidence of past mistakes (like children), it's much easier, at least in my perspective. The girl, rightly or wrongly, seems to be the one who gets "stuck" raising the kid(s). And yes, adoption is an option, but that's another thread entirely. [img]smile.gif[/img]

And look at the impacts, too. If a baby is conceived, the guy's job (as my wife reminded me) is already over. The girl gets to carry the baby until it reaches full term, with all the physical and biological changes that go along with it. As well, if a girl is pregnant, it's pretty much assumed she had sex. It's not always assumed which guy might have been the father, although it can be proven today through testing. Yep, still not fair. The girl gets most, if not all, of the downside.

It's interesting to me that you took a different view of my post than I intended. What I meant to say was that if my daughter decides to do something, I want it to be because *she* decided, not because someone else sold her a bill of goods and empty promises. I want her to make up her own mind; that's the point.

I remember from my youth the occasional promising of the moon, with no intent to deliver on the promise. Phrases like "Sure, I'll still love you in the morning" have become jokes because they're so prevalent.

It's also curious to me as I look at things from a more *ahem* mature perspective. Back in my youth, I didn't know the right things to say to get sex, quite frankly. I made up for it in college as best I could.

Today, if I don't care about the long-term implications, it's much easier to do a little acting, pretend interest in what someone else is doing or interested in, all the while focusing on what else needs to be done to open the bedsheets. Is it deceitful? Dishonest? Yeah, but when your big brain isn't doing the thinking, you care less about these things.

Note that I haven't done this; I'm still faithful after all these years, but I could.

And there's a whole industry of people who make these kinds of promises, only to deliver less than expected, if anything at all. The adult film industry, modeling... anything where youth is valued has the opportunity for abuse. And this doesn't mean everyone in those industries is dirty; rather, it's real easy to convince someone that if they "act" in this film, they'll soon be pulling in a million dollar income and partying with the glitziest people in Hollywood.

BTW, I don't think that boys should be allowed to get away with things either. I've got a son just two years behind my daughter, and I'll be expecting him to control his hormones as well. Don't ask me how, yet, because I'm still working on it... understanding of just what the implications and responsibilities of his actions will probably be a cornerstone of it.
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Old 02-18-2003, 12:48 PM   #40
Donut
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Join Date: March 1, 2001
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Guidelines on contraception for girls under 16 in the UK.

A health professional can give contraceptive advice and treatment to someone under the age of sixteen, provided that they are satisfied that they are competent. Guidance on this was issued in 1985 as part of Lord Fraserís judgement, following the House of Lordsí Ruling in the case of Victoria Gillick v. West Norfolk and Wisbech Health Authority and the Department of Health and Social Security. These are now referred to as the Fraser Guidelines, and although they relate specifically to contraception do apply to other treatments, including abortion in England and Wales.

The young person is competent to consent to contraceptive advice if

 The young person understands the doctorís advice

 The doctor cannot persuade the young person to inform his or her parents or allow the doctor to inform the parents that s/he is seeking contraceptive advice

 The young person is very likely to begin or continue having intercourse with or without contraception

 The young personís physical health or mental is likely to suffer if s/he does not receive contraceptive advice

 It is in the best interests of the young person to receive contraceptive advice without parental consent
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