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Old 03-06-2002, 12:48 PM   #1
*\Conan/*
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Join Date: March 1, 2001
Location: Virginia, USA
Age: 56
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(by Shankar Vedantam)
The 44 year old man who had collapsed in a meadow was brought to a hospital, pulse or brain activity was nil. Doctors began artificail resperation, heart message and defibrillation.
A nurse trying to feed a tube down the mans throat saw that he was wearing dentures. The nurse removed them and placedt them on a stand called a crash cart. The pateint was moved to the intensive care unit.
A week later, after the pateint had recovered, the nurse saw the man again. The man immediatly recognized the nurse as the person who had removed his dentures and also remembered other details of what happened while he was in a deep coma. Hesaid he had prceived the events from above the hospital bed and watched the doctors save his life.
This account would be standard fare in a supermarket tabloid, but it was published in the Lancet. It is the latest in a long series of efforts to either document or debunk the existence of "near-death" experiences, something that for the most part has remained in the realm of the paranormal.
The new study, conducted in the Netherlands, is one of the first so called propsective scientific studies. Instead of interveiwing people who reported near-death experiences after the fact, the researchs simply followed hundreds of patients who were resuscitated after suffering clinical death as their hearts stopped. The idea was that this approach might provide more accurate accounts by documenting the experiences as they happened, rather than basing them on recollections of the distant past.
About 18% of the patients in the study reported some recollection of the period when they were clinically dead, and 8% to 12% reported going through near-death experiences, such as seeing lights at the end of tunnels or "crossing over" and speaking with dead relatives and friends.
The researchers say the evidence supports the validity of "near-death" experiences and suggests that scientists should re-think theories on one of the ultimate medical mysteries: The nature of human consciousness.
Skeptics, however, maintain that the Dutch researchers had not provided evidence to buttress any extraordinary claims; certainly nothing as dramatic proff that there is an afterlife.
Most neuroscientists believe that consciousness is a byproduct of the physical brian, thatmind arises from matter. But if near death experiences are really what those who experience them say they are, does that mean that people can be conscious, when their brains do not show any signs of electrical energy or activity?
How can consciousness be independent of brain function?
" Compare it with a tv" program, said Pim van Lommel, a cardiologist at the Hospital Rijnstate in the Netherlands and lead investigator or the research. " I f you open the tv set you will not find the program. The tv set is a receiver. When you turn off youe tv set, the program is still there but you cant see it. When you put off your brain, your consciousness is there but you cant feel it in your body".
Although the Dutch scientist said did not address whether there was such a thing as soul or God or the afterlife, many remain skeptical.
The Dutch researchers tracked 344 patients who had been resusitated. They ranged from 26-92. Three quarterswere men. Most were interveiwed within 5 days of being resusitated, and the researchers followed up with interviews 2-8 years later to test the reliability of the patients' memories.
Patient demographics, religious beliefs, psycological makeup and medical treatment were also documented to see who wa more likely to report such experiences.
The researchers found that the experiences did not corrolate with any of the measured physiological ormedical parameters, which lommel said meant the experiences were unrelated to processes in the dying brain. Most patients had excellent recall of the events, he added, which underminded the theory that the memories were false. " Brain chemistry does not explain these phenomena" "I dont know what the explanation is, but our current understanding of brain chemistry falls short".
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Old 03-06-2002, 12:51 PM   #2
MagiK
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Near Death but not quite dead yet [img]smile.gif[/img] (scenes of Monty Python floating thru my brain)

I'll won't be convinced untill someone has been dead a week and THEN comes back [img]smile.gif[/img]
 
Old 03-06-2002, 01:43 PM   #3
*\Conan/*
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Sorry about the spelling...I only had about 45 minutes to copy it. I would make a lousy office assistant wouldn't I [img]smile.gif[/img] . Intresting article for sure!
Oh Majik...
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Old 03-06-2002, 04:17 PM   #4
DiabloRex
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Join Date: July 2, 2001
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This lights up my plan of raising an army of zombies and take over the...terrible sorry about that, annoying habit I have with thinking aloud
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Old 03-06-2002, 06:11 PM   #5
*\Conan/*
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quote:
Originally posted by DiabloRex:
This lights up my plan of raising an army of zombies and take over the...terrible sorry about that, annoying habit I have with thinking aloud
Scary thing is, your a Dane Rex.. hmmm [img]smile.gif[/img] You could have a lab under the North Sea connecting with the Dutch main lands.
Ok, serioso now.
I once crashed out pretty bad in an auto accident. I was going very fast and reckless that particular night....being 17 yrs old I was a bit wild you guys.
The night is more a blurr than anything now but I can tell you that I woke up in a hospital the next day with my body busted up. A day later I limped home with the aid of an older brother. While we were driving home he side tracked to a garage where the wreckage was. My parents station wagon looked like it went threw a metal crusher..a ball of metal. With cut marks where they entered to get me. If you were to look at it and estimate if the driver came out alive , you would give the thumbs down for sure.
I was in a coma for mybe for 5 hours or so.
As I am getting older now I remember scenes and things about it I never knew before. Mostly of the hours before the accident. But there is something still unsolved about that night. Concerning body, mind, or soul I cant put a finger on.
A force saved me that night. Look, I am just looking for the better part of me. There are some of you out there were I have read of your turmoils and been truly amazed at the re-bound out of situations, some like this. Anyone else care to add to this post?
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Old 03-06-2002, 06:24 PM   #6
Redblueflare
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Join Date: May 9, 2001
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I haven't had any near death experiences yet, so I can't really say much. A close call is an understatement of the crash you were in Conan. It's a miracle in itself that you got out of that alive. Glad you did.
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Old 03-06-2002, 09:38 PM   #7
*\Conan/*
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quote:
Originally posted by Redblueflare:
I haven't had any near death experiences yet, so I can't really say much. A close call is an understatement of the crash you were in Conan. It's a miracle in itself that you got out of that alive. Glad you did.
RBF, thanks bro!

But I hear some of the best Physicians live in your country [img]smile.gif[/img]
Cuba has excellent repore concerning these matters.
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Old 03-06-2002, 10:12 PM   #8
Moni
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You were very fortunate to have survived that night and I am glad you did. [img]smile.gif[/img]

I have no personal tales of near death to share as many times as I have nearly died in traumatic incidents, I have mostly remained conscious enough to still be alive (technically).

I did used to mess around with out of body experiences as a teenager and floating around my bedroom while my body remained in my bed was cool but I never felt like I had control...just the thought of being back in myself would make it so, so I never got to go too far LOL.

I sincerly hope that when I actually die that there is no one there to resuscitate me, so much so that I have been considering getting a medic-alert bracelet that says so. I have friends who are EMT's and the things they do to people in order to bring them back to life are both horrendous and painful.
 
Old 03-06-2002, 10:26 PM   #9
Moni
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Hmmm, as I hit the reply button just now, I remembered dying in my sleep once of alcohol poisoning.
I "awoke" and was being pulled through the air into eternal darkness.
I called out to God and I heard a voice that boomed like thunder. It said "I don't know you."
I called out to Christ and I heard a softer voice saying "I am here."
I asked why God said He did not know me and was told that it was because I knew too much and kept it all to myself. I did not live the kind of life that pleased God, I turned my back on opportunities to witness to others and by living for myself, it was no wonder that God would say that He didn't know me.
I asked Christ if He knew me, if I could go back and change the way I lived and He said "Yes".
The "pulling" stopped, I turned over and around and saw my body on the couch where I had fallen asleep in a drunken stupor.
I raced towards it and awoke in a very cold and almost stiff body...I had also wet myself...I do believe that I had died and what happened was for real.
It took a few more years for me to completely turn over a new leaf and live to stand up for my belief and my faith.
Thank you Conan for this post that reminded me how blessed I am and of what I cannot forget.
Thank you for giving me one more opportunity to bear witness to the existence of God and Christ.

Some of you can (and will) point and utter the words it was a dream, you are crazy, she is crazy, whatever, but I know it was real.
I had been dreaming just prior to waking up dead.
As long as it is all good between me and God...He knows I won't deny it and that is what matters...that and the possibility that any people who don't believe might consider the possibility and maybe have some faith of their own). [img]smile.gif[/img]
 
Old 03-07-2002, 09:50 AM   #10
Attalus
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Join Date: November 26, 2001
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Good post, Moni. I am a surgeon, and have resuscitated many. I have been told several times that the patient witnessed the efforts to save their life. One actually told me that he heard his attending physician tell me to "learn to recognize death," which is really amazing, because he had been really far gone and that (loutish) physician had actually made that comment, which I have never heard, before or since.
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