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Old 09-12-2001, 03:14 PM   #21
Moni
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Posts: n/a
[quote]Originally posted by Sorcerer Alex:
[B]
Quote:
Originally posted by Moni:
This country makes it too easy for foreigners to come here...they give them housing, educations and money to live on when they arrive! That is not to say that all foreigners are bad or bad for our country, but many with bad intentions can slip through unnoticed under the pretense that they are here to become citizens.

This worries me because I'm hoping to study in the US next year. After that I'd like to make it my home. I hope they'll let me in all right. I'm notta terrorist

I would not worry about it. This is a strong nation and I doubt that our open-door policy to foreigners will be slammed shut.
Being European, I seriously doubt that you will be scrutinized for your desire to study in this country.


Quote:
Originally posted by Diogenese of Pumpkintown:
I think it is patently obvious that most Americans seem to value American lives more than those of people of other countries.

It is patently obvious that most Americans care a good deal more about terrorist threats to the US than to other countries.

The same could probably be said of the attitudes of most other countries in the world. It is common to value the people closest to you more (and I mean this as much in personal and cultural senses as physical) than people further away.

I don't see any point in denying this basic truth.
First off are you aware that saying "patently obvious" is basically saying "obviously obvious"? Redundancy out of you is suprising!

Secondly, I fail to see where Americans value their own lives over other people's in this world. Who is most willing to go into other countries and lend a hand against terrorism attacks world-wide?
I don't know of any one country that can be pinpointed as the first one in line, but America does not turn a blind eye to the suffering of others through terrorism.
Before the treaties preventing the execution of terrorists, was America not more than willing to go in armed and rid the world of such fear-mongers as terrorists?
The Red-Cross is active on an international level when it comes to supplying needed medical attention, blood, food, and water to people all over the world who suffer from natural and terrorist based tragedies as well as in the aid of war-torn communities. This American based organization has spread the word world-wide that we are all worthy of life.
Yes, we love our families and neighbors a tad more than we (are able to through lack of personal contact) love a total stranger across the ocean but that does not mean we don't care, that we hold our existence above theirs as being more important because we are "Americans".
If we did, we'd be no better than those who live to terrorize the rest of the world!

Just my opinion.


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You know childhood is over when a puddle seems like an obstacle instead of an opportunity.

Is Too! Is Not! Is Too! Is Not!

[This message has been edited by Moni (edited 09-12-2001).]
 
Old 09-12-2001, 03:14 PM   #22
Mouse
Ironworks Moderator
 

Join Date: March 1, 2001
Location: Scotland
Posts: 2,784
Quote:
Originally posted by Kaz:
Ye gods, it hasn't been proven that it was the Middle East! I agree that this is probable and that CELELBRATING because of this disaster is a monstrous thing to do, but don't convict them before they have been proven guilty. Never to mention that the majority of the people in the Middle East had NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with this even IF certain rebel factions did this. Their attitude is horrible but we have no PROOF.

Generally, I have kept my own council so far on this whole tragic situation, but I have just read a bunch of posts and would like to show my appreciation to Kaz on the maturity and level-headedness of her contributions. Your responses have put some of us older contributors to shame.

If you ever decide to go into politics, let me know so I can vote for you (if I lived in Germany )




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[This message has been edited by Mouse (edited 09-12-2001).]
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Old 09-12-2001, 03:21 PM   #23
Dreamer128
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Join Date: March 21, 2001
Location: Europe
Age: 32
Posts: 6,136
Quote:
Originally posted by MagiK:
You do not really equate actions during a WORLD WAR as equivelent to a sneak attack perpetrated against ONLY civilains (WTC not the Pentagon)??

I dislike some of the things that were done in WWII but then again I wasnt standing next to my friends as Nazi machineguns tore them apart either...nor was I in the concentration camps....And as for what the US and Brittain did in winning that War, you DO NOT want to compare us to what the Soviets were doing on the other German front.

Do not mix a world war into the same catagory as terrorism they are NOT the same.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
This may be a different kind of war, but war it is.
And innocent civilians are innocent civilians, only a tiny minority of the german people were Nazi's you know. Also, might i remind you that some of the things you did to civies in 'nam werent to pretty either, so dont go accusing the Soviets.


[This message has been edited by Dreamer128 (edited 09-12-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Dreamer128 (edited 09-12-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Dreamer128 (edited 09-12-2001).]
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Old 09-12-2001, 03:26 PM   #24
Kaz
Thoth - Egyptian God of Wisdom
 

Join Date: August 16, 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 2,891
Quote:
Originally posted by Mouse:
Generally, I have kept my own council so far on this whole tragic situation, but I have just read a bunch of posts and would like to show my appreciation to Kaz on the maturity and level-headedness of her contributions. Your responses have put some of us older contributors to shame.

If you ever decide to go into politics, let me know so I can vote for you (if I lived in Germany )



Thank you Mouse *hugs*
I was wondering how long it would be until somebody tried to ban me for my sometimes ...unpopular points of view, as I have gotten into heated arguments a lot lately. Glad to know that I'm not alone in the world.
Thank you again *more hugs*
And if I ever go into politics, I'll be certain to inform you all!
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Old 09-12-2001, 03:30 PM   #25
DragonMage
20th Level Warrior
 

Join Date: September 6, 2001
Location: The lighter side of life, a.k.a. Newnan, Georgia
Age: 48
Posts: 2,767
Quote:
Originally posted by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown:
[BHell, most Americans don't know a thing about the events in Chile and Cambodia to which you refer, for example. They don't know because they don't really give a damn. Those are just far away events which have no real bearing on events in the US, in such minds. Sad but true.

[This message has been edited by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown (edited 09-12-2001).][/B]
While there is truth to this, it's also partly the fault of our media. They don't make a big deal out of "foreign affairs". It's just usually a one- or two-word aside. A BTW...They don't give it serious weight and, therefore, we wrongfully assume that it was no big deal. I, for one, have gotten very irritated with a newscast for "skimming" over the top of a story and have to go ferret the darned thing out on the internet (usually via overseas reports) to get the info.


------------------
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Old 09-12-2001, 03:40 PM   #26
Tuor
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Join Date: June 17, 2001
Location: england
Posts: 409
Quote:
Originally posted by Moni:
First off are you aware that saying "patently obvious" is basically saying "obviously obvious"? Redundancy out of you is suprising!

Secondly, I fail to see where Americans value their own lives over other people's in this world. Who is most willing to go into other countries and lend a hand against terrorism attacks world-wide?
I don't know of any one country that can be pinpointed as the first one in line, but America does not turn a blind eye to the suffering of others through terrorism.
Before the treaties preventing the execution of terrorists, was America not more than willing to go in armed and rid the world of such fear-mongers as terrorists?
The Red-Cross is active on an international level when it comes to supplying needed medical attention, blood, food, and water to people all over the world who suffer from natural and terrorist based tragedies as well as in the aid of war-torn communities. This American based organization has spread the word world-wide that we are all worthy of life.
Yes, we love our families and neighbors a tad more than we (are able to through lack of personal contact) love a total stranger across the ocean but that does not mean we don't care, that we hold our existence above theirs as being more important because we are "Americans".
If we did, we'd be no better than those who live to terrorize the rest of the world!

Just my opinion.

A point of accuracy here:
Since Vietnam and the occasion on which 17 GIs got killed and 51 were injured in a shoot out in a Somalian market the US has not been 'most willing to go into other countries and lend a hand against terrorism attacks world-wide.'

The US has however been more than willing to launch cruise missiles against terrorist targets and quite rightly so many people would say. There is a important difference between those two policies. One endangers the lives of servicemen the other does not.

The US has been willing to act in a peacekeeping capacity and invade other countries to maintain the peace (and oil supplies) but there is a difference between that and anti-terrorist operations. In anti terrorist operations your soldiers are a target every day and you will lose soldiers regularly-examples are Northern Ireland, Israeli occupation of the West Bank, Spain etc etc

The US government has repeatedly shown that the protection of its servicemen is of prime importance-even below the importance of retailiation in some cases.
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Old 09-12-2001, 03:46 PM   #27
Cloudbringer
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Join Date: March 1, 2001
Location: Upstate NY USA
Posts: 19,736
Quote:
Originally posted by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown:
I think it is patently obvious that most Americans seem to value American lives more than those of people of other countries.

It is patently obvious that most Americans care a good deal more about terrorist threats to the US than to other countries.

The same could probably be said of the attitudes of most other countries in the world. It is common to value the people closest to you more (and I mean this as much in personal and cultural senses as physical) than people further away.

I don't see any point in denying this basic truth.
Dio, while I DO understand your point, I've got to say that a life is a life and I cry when someone is blown up on a bus in Israel or shot in northern Ireland or gunned down in Bosnia or Palestine... need I go on? This has 'my countrymen' overtones,yes, but again LIVES were taken. That's what counts for me.

YES, this hit us all very hard here in the US, but I also think it's a valid point that many of us would be equally outraged if this happened someplace else. We are not all alike, and I don't for one minute think I'm speaking for everyone, but I know that I do speak for many. Tragedies of this magnitude are horrendous ANYWHERE.

Cloudy


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Old 09-12-2001, 03:49 PM   #28
Ramon de Ramon y Ramon
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Join Date: March 1, 2001
Location: Cologne, North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany
Age: 45
Posts: 1,517
Quote:
Originally posted by Dreamer128:

This may be a different kind of war, but war it is.
And innocent civilians are inocent civilians, only a tiny minority of the german people were Nazi's you know.

[/B][/QUOTE]

If only you were right on that one ! But like with most things that are just too good to be true this one isn't true either: to my distress I have to inform you that historic research has shown that the Nazi regime always had the backing of a very large portion of the German population for all the time from 1933 through 1945.

------------------
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Btw, the cow is queuing in the slaughterhouse right now !
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Old 09-12-2001, 03:50 PM   #29
Diogenes Of Pumpkintown
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Join Date: August 9, 2001
Location: ...
Posts: 694
Quote:
Originally posted by DragonMage:
While there is truth to this, it's also partly the fault of our media. They don't make a big deal out of "foreign affairs". It's just usually a one- or two-word aside. A BTW...They don't give it serious weight and, therefore, we wrongfully assume that it was no big deal. I, for one, have gotten very irritated with a newscast for "skimming" over the top of a story and have to go ferret the darned thing out on the internet (usually via overseas reports) to get the info.


DragonMage, the media doesn't concentrate on such foreign envents precisely because the American public doesn't really care about such events. We are more concerned with who is going to win the next Super Bowl.

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Old 09-12-2001, 03:53 PM   #30
Cloudbringer
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Join Date: March 1, 2001
Location: Upstate NY USA
Posts: 19,736
Quote:
Originally posted by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown:
DragonMage, the media doesn't concentrate on such foreign envents precisely because the American public doesn't really care about such events. We are more concerned with who is going to win the next Super Bowl.
hmm.. and you say you aren't a cynic?! Keep looking, my friend, one day you shall find that "one honest man".

Cloudy

(hey..no flames.. I like dio and he knows it! )

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