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Old 09-11-2001, 04:50 PM   #71
Neb
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*claps* Good post Ryanamur, I agree wholeheartedly, the only problem is locating the terrorist groups, and once they're located, the problem becomes hitting them without hitting any nearby civilians, also, give them absolutely NO WARNING before attacking, that way they won't have a chance to take any hostages and/or hide even more among nearby civilians.

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Old 09-11-2001, 04:51 PM   #72
Nachtrafe
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Quote:
Originally posted by Moni:
Camp David almost destroyed?! Where does that information come from?
See my above post. I misspoke. One of the planes that was hijacked was reported as on its way to Camp David when it crashed

Quote:

If you would continue reading consecutive posts within threads and not just jump in to badmouth me you would see that I said I do not think that Bush himself orchestrated it. I did not say it is the reason for these attacks.

I don't believe the planning of these attacks today took place overnight in case you really think I am that stupid.
Moni, I know for a fact that you are not stupid. I never stated, or even insinuated that you were. I just find the whole notion that this attack was predicated by the President and/or the Govt preposterous.

Quote:

Study your politics and tell me that there have never been politicians above sacrificing their own for their benefit in the long run.
Now its your turn. Please give me credit for intelligence too. I know very well that politicians throughout history have used the populace for their own ends. However, usually not in such a horrendous fashion.

Quote:

Tell me that you have proof that Desert Storm was not in any way a poiltically-based message sent to the American people by George Bush Sr. You would be fooling yourself to believe it.
Actually, the Gulf War was entirely economic. It was about US access to oil. Pure and simple.

Quote:

I also said within this thread "I would like to end up knowing later on that I am completely wrong right now."
I agree with that sentiment wholeheartedly.

Quote:

Did I say once that Bush is going to use this to take over the country?!
Please use your pocketchange to buy yourself a grip because you appear to have lost the one you showed up here with!
No...you didn't say the words "Bush is going to use this to take over the country?!" However, you insinuated it quite nicely.

Quote:

Read me for what I say, not for what you want it to mean and get off my back.
I don't give a crap if you are Cloudy's online boyfriend that gives you no right to put words in my mouth and twist what I say to fight with me.
Moni dear...My relationship with Cloudy has absolutely nothing to do with this, or any other debate I get into. You are being incredibly insulting to both her, and myself. You are also trying to divert this debate by bringing her into it. Follow your own rules. Defeat my arguements on their own merits. Dont bring imagined nepotism into your debates

Quote:

Memnoch, I am sorry if what I am saying here can be called a flame and the words directed at me cannot.
I am tired of defending myself against people who refuse to understand that we don't all think alike, we don't all talk alike and that we are, as individuals allowed our opinions in this country so long as we do no others any harm with them. I am not attacking anyone here yet I am on the defensive at every turn with "friends" on this board.

I bend over backwards on a regular basis apologizing to (a certain group of) people here who get kicks out of twisting my words, putting words in my mouth and coming across like I am a hateful person and quite frankly I am tired of it.

THIS IS NOT THE DAY TO FIGHT WITH ME!

THIS IS NOT THE DAY TO FIGHT WITH ANYONE!

Tell you what. Dont put words into my, or anyone else's mouth, and I, or anyone else, wont need to return the favor. I think you are percieving threat and persecution where there is absolutely none. I have read this, and every other thread that you are involved in regarding the days tragedy. You seem to be insisting that everyone is reading your posts wrong, yet most of them seem deliberately inflamatory. Perhaps I am one of the ones reading them wrong. If that is true, then I apologize. If its not true, you might want to edit them before hitting Submit.

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Old 09-11-2001, 04:53 PM   #73
Ryanamur
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Join Date: March 29, 2001
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gabriel:
Effective yes but it not as simple as that, terrorist normaly do not sit all togeather in compounds they are in with the normal people, living next door to them working in serect. And any attack like that would only spawn more groups from the friends and relatives of those that died or just those that think such acts were wrong. No terrorists are like a cancer simple cutting it out would damage the surrounding tissue, you must work carefully in order to cause as little damage to the body as possible.
I know that. But you didn't read my post correctly... go after them... if they're having tea at gramma's house, BOOM, no more gramma's house! It's not simple, it's not ethical, it's not done overnight. It's guerrila warfare, it's not pleasant but that's the only way that this war can be won.

The way I see it: if 25 innocent civilian are killed because of a missile attack in Afganistant, that's too bad but it was worth it if you killed the terrorist. Plus, you might also kill other terrorists in the attack. It's sad, it's completely unethical but that's the way it is.

You have to play by there rules if you want to win. As far as they are concerned, civilians are just as an opportunistic target as the speaker of the house (the President of the US is in a different category)
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Old 09-11-2001, 04:55 PM   #74
Lord Shield
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Quote:
Originally posted by Moni:
After investigations which took some time, it was concluded that the space shuttle program knew they were dealing with a faulty design and kept sending the shuttles up because nothing disasterous had yet happened. All of those people involved in the knowledge of the potential for disaster who did nothing to correct it (in order to keep costs low) because of the failure of any tragedies up to that point were all "relieved of their positions" within the space program.

I am sure that proper investigation will pinpoint the responsible parties if they are from foreign or domestic terrorist groups.

We can only hope so. To be perfectly honest I think the terrorists (if that is what they were)wanted to hit the Pentagon while Pres was away to make a point.

It's like the time the IRA blew up the building NEXT to Margaret Thatcher some years back just to show they could do it



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Old 09-11-2001, 04:56 PM   #75
G'kar
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The bin ladin group has denied responibility...
 
Old 09-11-2001, 04:57 PM   #76
Neb
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Maybe using snipers and small teams of elite soldiers would be just as effective? That way, you can also find such nice things at their camps as papers and reciepts(Maybe not reciepts) proving that they've been funded by some country or another, if they were funded by a country of course, but if such things ARE at their camps, then they would be hard to find after the camp has just been incinerated by 100 gallons of Napalm or 10 cruise missiles.

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Old 09-11-2001, 04:58 PM   #77
Ryanamur
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Join Date: March 29, 2001
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Quote:
Originally posted by Neb:
*claps* Good post Ryanamur, I agree wholeheartedly, the only problem is locating the terrorist groups, and once they're located, the problem becomes hitting them without hitting any nearby civilians, also, give them absolutely NO WARNING before attacking, that way they won't have a chance to take any hostages and/or hide even more among nearby civilians.

Sorry to say that you're thinking in grey... civilians are not part of the equation. You and your objective are all that matters, nothing else is relevant.
(remember, this is war, you have to be cold)

I totally agree about the NO WARNING... I should have said it in my post rather than insinuating it.
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Old 09-11-2001, 04:58 PM   #78
G'kar
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The Air force has been order to "respond" with fighter jets to any "suspicious" flights according to cnn. what could this mean?

 
Old 09-11-2001, 04:58 PM   #79
MagiK
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Neb I kind of would prefer those tactics and I think we could be highly effective employing them...but some people would object...hell some people will object if ANYTHING is done to avenge this.

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Old 09-11-2001, 04:58 PM   #80
Staralfur
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Join Date: April 8, 2001
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This whole thing is truly bad, and anyone involved has my deepest sympathy.

Just a few quick cents from me;

The whole thing seems very well planned, I think the fact that 2 planes were used in NY and the timimg shows this. One tower is hit, the cameras arrive just in time to film the second plane crash in. Scores maximum points on the effect rating as the media has more to show than just a single smoking tower as it would have been if a single building was hit - it was almost like something out of an action film (except no Bruce Willis).In this sense the WTC was perfect - very high profile, has 2 targets and not far from a flight path. The blanket coverage was just what was wanted - we had all our cable TV channels showing news at one point this afternoon, someone got one hell of a sick ego boost out of this. Also 8:50 on a working day - that is truly evil, someone planned that to take lives not to cut the deathtoll down.

The Pentagon is another high profile target that is easy to get to on the flight routes. I get the impression this didn't hit as true as was planned, something to do with a 'tricky' decent maybe Both are high profile, easy to spot targets near flight paths and symbols of Americas econimic and military might. I think this was done more for effect, almost to gloat than for a real attempt to bring America to it's knees - for this it was crucial that the towers collapsed, more for symbolism than anything else, (apparently there could have been bombs on board - no confirmation). Anyone think more is coming?


Also, did anyone see President Bushs' and PM Blairs' off the cuff statements just as they had found out? Anyone else think that they looked lost without a piece of paper from their script writer? And how comfortable they both looked later after some poor sod had to write something insipiring for them to say.


I've just seen the live pictures of NY on the news; it looks like a war zone. Also there is still debris coming down now, what 6 or 7 hours after the collapse.

BTW. The rumour about Camp David is that is where the 4th plane was headed

Lots of other rumours at the moment - hopefully we'll know more tomorrow.

(Sorry about the lack of grammar or sense, I'm very tired at the moment)

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