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Old 11-10-2001, 09:42 AM   #21
Dundee Slaytern
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I have Mislead in my Chain Contingency precisely to avoid contact with direct melee combat, this will disable your ability to use the scroll of Protection from Magic on the Sorcerer/Mage, and last I recall, Monks cannot cast Improved Invisibility( Thieves can though because of Use any Item). Unless you can get rid of the Mislead, your GWs are useless.

The Monk may still be able to overcome the Sorcerer/Mage under the SoA Xp Cap, but the Sorcerer/Mage will definitely be stronger than the Monk under the ToB Xp Cap.

Even if you have 100% Magic Resistance, that is what the Spell Trigger is for. Even if you choose to go invisible, so can a Sorcerer/Mage, but at least they can call upon a Planeter to help dispel the Warrior's invisibility, and that is your cue to fire a Spell Trigger filled with 3 Lower Resistances.

Cue multiple casting of Skull Traps, Fireballs, ADHWs, Greater Malison, Emotion, etc... ...

It is all about the tactics.

This is not to say a Sorcerer/Mage is invulnerable, I know of one kit which can screw a Sorcerer/Mage badly, and no, it is not the Wizard Slayer, think Keldorn.

[ADD]
I am surprised nobody brought up the Inquisitor up till now though, I wanted to mention it before I went for dinner outside, but I was in a rush and decided to post it later. Heh, heh.
[/ADD]

[ 11-10-2001: Message edited by: Dundee Slaytern ]

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Old 11-10-2001, 09:47 AM   #22
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Horus - Egyptian Sky God
 

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it is not about tactics

tactics have nothing to do in this case, it is all about the way the game it is

sorc/mage just suck

trust me, the strategies you named have been tested over and over by the best duelers and got beaten EVERY SINGLE TIME, no chance

BTW, how can you disable me from casting Protection from magic?? how?? all I have to do is to disable YOU then you are gone

Edit: just about anyone can beat the 'best' mage/sorc

[ 11-10-2001: Message edited by: DM of FAoIW ]

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Old 11-10-2001, 09:51 AM   #23
Dundee Slaytern
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I am Misleaded, you cannot target me.

QED.
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Old 11-10-2001, 11:08 AM   #24
frudi_x
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Dundee...
firs off - I was talking about Ring of Improved Invisibility, not casting it from a scroll
second - even if you use Mislead to prevent using Protection from Magic scroll on you, the monk can still use it on himself. what's a mage to do then?
third - the Mislead will die after about three hits, that means the monk will kill it before you realise what happened, specially if the monk used GW. after that he just gulps down another potion of invisibility and you're left in the dark again. after that YOU CAN target the mage with the scroll, even though the mage is under Improved Invisibility.
fourth - if we're talking about dueling, then a planetar isn't going to help you find an invisible monk, since the monk isn't the enemy [img]smile.gif[/img]


I was gonna mention the Inquisitor, but then remembered this is supposed to be a monk debate otherwise it would be the obvious choice to go up against any spellcaster. double-level Dispel Magic, True Sight and Carsomyr are more than any mage can handle [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 11-10-2001: Message edited by: frudi_x ]

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Old 11-10-2001, 11:43 AM   #25
Dundee Slaytern
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quote:
Originally posted by frudi_x:
Dundee...
firs off - I was talking about Ring of Improved Invisibility, not casting it from a scroll


Fair enough, note though that I can still cast Dispel/Remove Magic. Worse to worst, I use Chain Contingency to hit you instead, with 3 Lower Resistances( can target IV targets, provided they reveal themselves).

second - even if you use Mislead to prevent using Protection from Magic scroll on you, the monk can still use it on himself. what's a mage to do then?

I covered this in my first post.
If Monk used Protection from Magic scroll, then just stay invisible for 10 turns( 10 minutes), just remember to recast PfMW when the time runs out.

third - the Mislead will die after about three hits, that means the monk will kill it before you realise what happened, specially if the monk used GW. after that he just gulps down another potion of invisibility and you're left in the dark again. after that YOU CAN target the mage with the scroll, even though the mage is under Improved Invisibility.

How do you target me? When I cast Mislead, I gain invisibility, the death of the illusion will not remove the invisibility until I make a hostile move. Note also that I can drink a Potion of Invisibility too anyway. Which is why such potions tend to make the fight into a stalemate.

fourth - if we're talking about dueling, then a planetar isn't going to help you find an invisible monk, since the monk isn't the enemy [img]smile.gif[/img]

The game is flawed when it comes to PvP, because party members cannot be hostile, but if they can, rest assured that the Planetar can target the Monk. You cannot say the Planetar cannot target the Monk, because that is the limitation of the game, I am working under the assumption that the Monk is hostile.

I was gonna mention the Inquisitor, but then remembered this is supposed to be a monk debate otherwise it would be the obvious choice to go up against any spellcaster. double-level Dispel Magic, True Sight and Carsomyr are more than any mage can handle [img]smile.gif[/img]

Ay, the Inquisitor would be a pain in the a** for any Sorcerer/Mage. When DM of FAoIW started mentioning Barbs/Fighters/Paladins, I started to cover more ground and assumed that they were in the equation as well now.


Once again, a disclaimer.

By no means are Sorcerers/Mages the end-all, be-all class when it comes to power, but frankly, IMHO, a Sorcerer/Mage has a better chance to defeat an Inquisitor than a Monk against a Sorcerer/Mage.
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Old 11-10-2001, 04:49 PM   #26
AzRaeL StoRmBlaDe
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whoa whoa whoa settle down people this thread wasn't intended to be a high level sorcerer vs. high level monk chat. i was just throwing out my appreciation to what i thought was, before i tried it, a pretty worthless class. I was just pleasantly surprised at how awesome the monk class ended up being, nothing against sorcerers, mages, jesters, mimes (well maybe not mimes, I hate those buggers) but you get the idea. Well all know every class has certain advantages, and what would be the fun of the game if they didnt? I'm not going to say any class is better than any other, it just depends on what you think you'll have the most fun playing at the time, be it a wild mage or a jester, or a berseker half orc with a charisma of 5 that lives in the local taverns drinking and hitting on women of ill repute, as long as you have fun with it doesnt matter what class you pick. we need to get back to the fundamentals of RPGs, and thats just having a good time [img]smile.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img]
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Old 11-10-2001, 05:06 PM   #27
Dundee Slaytern
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Ay, I agree Monks are a good class.

Anybody passionate about the Beastmaster though?
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Old 11-10-2001, 10:09 PM   #28
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Horus - Egyptian Sky God
 

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yeah, you bet I cannot target you

there are loads of cantrips out there to TARGET an invisible character
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Old 11-10-2001, 10:11 PM   #29
Dundee Slaytern
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Details please?
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Old 11-10-2001, 10:17 PM   #30
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Horus - Egyptian Sky God
 

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just cast and click on your picture

also, mislead, you do realize that the fake character cannot cast any magic. and any copy-self's image is significantly weaker than original charatcer.

if you want to do any real dmg, that has to come from yourself (which breaks invisibility)

ring of air control cast improved invisibility on self. monks can use it and you can buy infinite number of ring of air control
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