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Old 07-17-2001, 09:07 PM   #21
Amergin
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technically, waluin's "spoiler" argument was an invalid one (on this board, at least .
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Old 07-17-2001, 09:20 PM   #22
Cavern Sniffer
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Amergin, your weapon speed synopsis has intrigued me and it's not something I really ever thought about before to be honest. So how would it pan out if we had two fighters of exactly the same stat's and levels, both doing say 4 attacks per round with equal weapons, the only difference being that fighter A has a weapon speed of 5 and fighter B a weapon speed of 10. Would it be that fighter A gets all 4 of his attacks in and finished (but then stands idle for the rest of the round) while fighter B has only got 2 of his attacks in? If this is the case then surely weapon speed is an important part of the proceedings as fighter B could well be pushing up the daisies before he gets his final 2 attacks in.

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Old 07-17-2001, 09:53 PM   #23
Northraven
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Cavern Sniffer, in response to the weapon speed question...allow me to be a bit of a rules-lawer here and tell you how it works in PnP AD&D. When someone gets multiple attacks per round they get their first attack in initiative order to every other combatant and then they get their second and subsequent attacks after everyone has had their first attack. So, in the case of our two hypothetical fighters with four attacks each, the faster one would hit then the slower and back and forth like that. Now, one must keep in mind that weapon speed is just a modifier applied to the player's initiative roll, the lower the better so who hits first really comes down to the luck of the dice with an edge going to the combatant with the faster weapon...in other words it SHOULD make a difference and give advantage to the guy with the faster weapon but if the slower guy has a horseshoe shoved up his ass then he could come out on top. And hey, lets not discount poor to-hit rolls on either side of this equation. Still all things being equal, weapon speed will decide to contest.

As to my favorite sword...it's not 2-handed but Kundane +2 for my thief gives me an extra attack per round and has a speed factor of 0...and if I need extra +'s to hit something there's always Cutthroat.
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Old 07-18-2001, 02:45 AM   #24
Amergin
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good call, northraven.

of course, if all other things are equal the edge would go to the faster weapon. here, however, we were comparing two swords, the warblade and soul reaver. if two fighters of equal level, AC, and hp squared off and the luck or random factors removed, which would benefit its user more.

fighter A: AC:0, 120hp, THAC0 11, 4 attacks, wielding warblade (dmg 1-12+4, avg 10.5)
fighter B: AC:0, 120hp, THAC0 11, 4 attacks, wielding soul reaver (1-10+4, avg 9.5)

round 1: they'll each hit twice this round, with A causing 21 dmg and B causing 19. i'll be nice here and say that BOTH of B's hits came after A's as a nod to the weapon speed. from this point on, though, the playing field becomes skewed.

round 2: A was hit twice meaning that his THAC0 was increased by 4, making it a 15, or 25%. now instead of two hits per round on average, he's down to just one, and it only gets worse. fighter A can either die, or cry for mercy and bow to the superiority of soul reaver
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Old 07-18-2001, 03:55 AM   #25
Northraven
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You'll get no arguments from me on how wonderful soul-reaver is Amerigin...I would even go so far as to place it above Carsomyr which I consider to be a VERY over-rated weapon due to it's many limitations.
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Old 07-18-2001, 05:13 AM   #26
Amergin
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hmm, didnt mean to come off so bombastic. it's probably due to the fact that i'm a late convert to any 2-handed weapons at all and soul reaver is the only one that i like so far.

imo, 2-handed weapons don't cause enough damage, ESPECIALLY now that katanas do freakin 1-10 AND are considered one-handed. that's just not right. the very least they could have done was require an extra proficiency slot just to use it to account for its rarity and difficulty to master (so specialized would be 3 slots rather than 2, and grandmastery would require 6). but no. any schmuck from Tethyr can use a katana just like it was his grandfather's long sword. to see just how lopsided it's become, simply pretend that there are no magical versions to consider; would you choose a long sword+shield, katana+shield (aesthetically stupid but allowed), or 2-handed sword. judging from the posts in this forum, katana+shield would win in a landslide.

it's got to be a damn special weapon indeed if it's going to make me give up my shield and the potential +5 to my armor class (and possibly more vs missiles).
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Old 07-18-2001, 08:52 AM   #27
DonkeyWan
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Ahh, but Katana's aren't that good, I mean you don't see +5 katana's do you (anyway, Katana's should be two handed, as thats how Japanese samurai used to wield them, even though they had a second shorter sword, this was a stabbing sword and not used for fighting as such).

anyway 2-handed swords suck, 'cos of the loss of armor class and slowness of their attacks....
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Old 07-18-2001, 12:52 PM   #28
Gustave
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Join Date: June 9, 2001
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But you sacrafice a bit of speed for some extra power, not to mention the pluses to hit. Only +4(or greater) weapon I can think of is Crom, Cutt Throat and possibly one of Drizzt's Scimitars. The two-handers have plenty of +4 and greater weapons such as The Wave(Halberd), Soul Reaver, Carsomyr, Warblade, Spear of Withering, and a few bows and X-Bows.
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Old 07-18-2001, 01:16 PM   #29
Bruce The Aussie
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all i can say is larcol (sp) rules because of what he/it says but its not the most practical of sword. soul reaver is the best sword because carsomer is crap. and katana's should be wielded with two hands

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Old 07-18-2001, 02:12 PM   #30
Hanz123
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without a doubt: heartseeker +3
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