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Old 06-18-2001, 04:45 PM   #21
ScottG
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Join Date: June 13, 2003
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Yes the monk is awesome higher in level, but he does have limited healing (just not enough). The best thing the monk has going is the speed factor (which the barbarian has to some extent as well). Slap the boots of speed on him and watch as he leaves the rest of you party in the dust. Paticularly nice with the cloak of reflection (not cloak of mirrors as I previously stated) +5 darts (though it is to bad you can't get more in a day than 5). Higher in level with the boots of speed and the darts he becomes 5 rounds worth of machinegun.
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Old 08-25-2001, 04:41 PM   #22
ScottG
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I just noticed a question on char.s again so I thought I would bump this and add a little new stuff.

There are some spoiles below in regards to wepons but I'm not saying where you can find them (so the spoil is minimal).


Another intresting char. (more for the advanced player who is looking to play something new and intresting that is more difficult yet still VERY powerfull that meets the requirements I first posted):

Druid dualed to a Kensai (shadow keeper allows you to dual your 2nd class as a kit by simply choosing your kit while still in your first class and then when you acctually do dual to a fighter you will automatically become a Kensai - this does not give you any Kensai attributes untill you dual, so no cheese here - simply overcoming a game defect that won't allow a class kit on your second class.)

(There are two ways to level up here that I will go into detail below.)

Resons why (Druid portion 1st, then Kensai portion):

1st off, Druids scale faster than any other char. (up to level 11 - I believe is only 350,000 exp. points), and their stats are the same as a Cleric (good melee ability but not great - much better than a mage). After you have dualed and when your Kensai gets much higher in level you start getting more Hitpoints - and your THAC0 starts dropping fast.

2nd, they also have some of the best offensive spells in the game & with a Wisdom bonus you get extra spells. Obviously they have healing spells (which are very much in need as I explained above). At 1st level they have access to healing & or entangle, second is barkskin for protection which scales w/ the user (much needed w/ a Kensai and lasts long enough for most battles), 3rd level - healing & or insect spell, 4th level Call Woodland being which is prob. the best summoning spell in the game (why? - because it you are calling up creatures w/ Lots of offensive spells like Confusion that are significantly above 4th level), 5th level there are two important spells - one is ironskin (which is very important for a Kensai & works like stoneskin but is better) - second is insect plauge (which does significant damage to multiple opponents, none to your own, and causes 100% spell casting failure to your opponents - AWESOME), 6th level is reserved for only 1 spell (there are some good spells here at 6th but your 5th level spells are better) - Wonderous Recall gives you two spells of 5th level or lower.

Third, they also can use swords (scimitars only - dual wield them) and daggers. There is one scimitar in the game that is +3, but more importantly there is a +2 scimitar that gives an extra attack per round (belm +2) - which is awesome. (Even if you could keep Dritz's scimitars you couldn't use them because they are only for good aligned char.s.) Additionally their is a nice +4 dagger in the game, but more importantly again there is a +3 magic throwing dagger in the game (firetooth - which returns to the weilder magically) - this works nicely in conjunction with the Kensai because it allows the Kensai the oppurtunity to use what is essentially a missle wepon (plus it allows xtra damage str. modifier - say from a girdle). (I believe there is also a +4 spear in the game but you arn't going to get nearly as many attacks per round in a melee fight so it is better to stick w/ the scimitars). (There is also a staff that gives extra spells avail. in the bonus cd patch - you could always equip. the staff untill you run out of spells and then go melee w/ 2 scimitars.)

The negatives here are that you accumulate fewer hit points early on than a fighter (as well as a higher THAC0), you are wepons limited (but not a big thing w/ the wepons I mentioned), the time spent while a Kensai only will have none of the needed healing or defensive spells (and it will be a good while longer for the Kensai to progress beyond the point where you get your Druid class back), additionally you are limited to using leather armour only a druid (which is why is another reason why it works nicely w/ a Kensai as leather armour isn't that effective).

Kensai portion:

Kensai's have Kai ability where all hits do max damage for a short time (and you will continue to get this every 4 levels because it is your 2nd class)

Kensai's get a +2 AC bonus that works w/ ANYTHING at the start.

Kensai's get drop in speed movement every 5 levels.

Kensai's also get good bonuses to THAC0 & damage at the start (and I believe it gets better as you go higher in level).

W/ TOB installed & when you get higher in level you start getting some excellent Special abilities available to the high level fighter class - abilities that you don't get if you start w/ a fighter and dual to a druid). Hardiness in paticular works well w/ a Kensai.

Negatives:

Kensai's can't wear armour or bracers (BIG negative - but over come once you have your druid spells back.) They also can't use missle wepons (but you can use a wepon like firetooth so this is of lesser importance).


As I mentioned previously there are two diff. and intresting ways you can play this char.

1st non-cheese, is by scaling up to level 12 as a Druid & then dualing to a Kensai. The reason level 12 is the optimum is because it gives you access to one extra 6th level spell (an extra Wonderous Recall that gives you 2 extra 5th level spells) - this totals out your 5th level spell count to 6 (generally 3 ironskins & 3 insect plauges), and it gives you extra lower level spells (paticularly call woodland being). Thats a hell of a lot of spell power for only 750,000 exp. points, but you do pay extra for that additional 12th level over 11th which is another 350,000 exp. points (It is definitly worth it though for the extra spells). It really isn't worth it to go to 13 level for another 750,000 exp. points (1.5 mil. exp. points total). What makes this so tough is that you will have to play straight Kensai (w/ out the spells) untill you hit level 13 (in other words 1.25 mil exp. points) - definitly a challange, but do-able & FUN.

2nd cheesefest easter-egg game, use Shadow Keeper (w/ TOB installed) to pump you up to 3 mil exp. points imeadietly so that you are a grand druid, and then dual imeadietly afterwards to a Kensai so that you play most of SOA as a Newborn Kensai untill closer to the end (exp. point wise) when you really need the the Druid spells - they pop up like an easter-egg.

Notes:

Another tough thing about this class is the ability scores. You need (for your Druid class) at least a 15 on charisma (which is a useless attribute in this game), and you need a 17 or better wisdom (though definitly you want an 18 here for the extra spells). You will also need an 18 for str. for your Kensai. You will want an 18 for dex. for the AC bonus much needed for the Kensai, as well as an 18 for cons. (you need as many hitpoints as you can get). What this means is that you will have a pitifull intelligence score - that can be debilitating if you are ability drained or mazed.
(after many, many, MANY roles I managed this score - the reason why it is 4 total points more than in my 1st post is because I there I was also concentrating on getting an 18/90+ str. stat which isn't available here because you are a Druid your 1st class. Again though, you could struggle for many hours to role this score, why not save the time and just use Shadow Keeper to get these scores?)
str. 18
dex. 18
con. 18
int. 10
wis. 18
char.15

W/ dual wield and 2 scimitars (belm +2 in the off hand) & boots of speed (+ level 13+) your up to 5 attacks per round.

Why didn't I choose some other combination of Druid fighter?
1. Not going the route of fighter 1st:
Druids almost stand still (exp. point vs. level) higher in level (ie. it takes for ever to level up past 12th level). Also you have NO incentive to go beyond Grand Druid level (and the High level special ability spells aren't really worth it for TOB). Additionally, you get some VERY nice High Level special abilites for the Fighter class in TOB (that you wouldn't get the other way around) as well as extra special abilities unique to Kensai as you go higher in level.

2. Choosing a druid class like Totemic druid (which is the best IMO if you are also a fighter) will not allow you to dual to a fighter (don't know why, other wise I might choose this over the Druid Kensai).

3. Druid Berserker would be equally appealing and would also be a MUCH easier class to play (no armour restriction & the ability to shrug off imprisonment w/ berserk ability) for those relativly new to the game), but here you are limited to leather armour so why not go for the extras the Kensai can give you and ditch the armour all-together? (Though, as always its up to you.)


In TOB their is a VERY nice +5 scimitar (acctually I think you get the +4 version of it in the Watchers Keep & can make it +5 in TOB - in either case you will need TOB installed to be able to get it.)
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Old 08-25-2001, 04:55 PM   #23
ScottG
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Notes continued...

Additionally, this is a class (Druid Kensai) you can start from BG1 & TOS (with the extra attribute bonuses you can get there through manuals).
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Old 08-25-2001, 05:13 PM   #24
Legolas the Elven Archer
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There's no doubt about it: Dual classing humans with a kit are amongst the most powerfull characters in the game. If you're going for powerplay instead of purely for fun, the bezerker/cleric is a very good choice
You've done a lot of research here, and I think that's great!

Still, I don't think I will ever try the bezerker/cleric out. I'm just too much of an Elf player

------------------
The last arrow of Legolas kindled in the air as it flew,
and plunged burning into the heart of a great wolf-chieftain.
All the others fled. -J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings
 
Old 08-25-2001, 07:31 PM   #25
ScottG
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Ah Mr. pointy ear

another excellent class to take from BG1 through to TOB
especially w/ extra abilty stat increases for dex.

(w/ TOB in mind - in regards to high level special abilities)

would be a fighter theif multiclass

I tested this out w/ Shadow Keeper to see what would happen, giving the char. 8 mil exp. points
This netted about 22 high level special abilities (more than you would get in just one class) and if you like the abilities in one class over another you could just keep selecting that ability.

The problems w/ the high level special abilities are that you can only have one working at a time (ie. you can't combine them) which leads reminds me I need to post another note here

For pure classes early on (dungeon level):
The Archer class early on in SOA is prob. the second best class offensivly, intrestingly enough the Totemic Druid I would place 1st (the reason is that your summoned spirit animal just BLOWS through any opponent in the dungeon - you don't even have to lift a finger.)

The Major prob. w/ the Archer is that several MAJOR opponents appear to be immune to missle wepons (making them MUCH less usefull in the big fights)
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Old 08-25-2001, 07:37 PM   #26
ScottG
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Notes continued.....

Special High Level abilities can ONLY be used one at a time - NOT in conjunction. However, Special abilities like Kai for Kensai's and Enrage for Berserkers can be used in conjunction w/ ONE special high level ability (ie. Kai + Hardiness works).
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Old 08-25-2001, 10:19 PM   #27
Nerull
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Good analysis. I might spend my proficiencies a little differently, but other than that, the Berserker/Cleric is a good combo (I've finished the game with one before). Also nice is the ranger/cleric (don't need a kit for this one), since this combination gives you access to both cleric and druid spells (and not just for the ranger spell slots, either; you get both types of spells to fill ALL of your slots). This character combination makes Jaheira obsolete, as you can cast all of those nice spells that she can cast (more of them than her at higher levels), cast all the cleric spells, turn undead, and fight well, too (can put 3 slots in dual wield, with 2 coming as a class bonus; can also specialize in the sling). The only problems as compared to a berserker/cleric: can't become a grandmaster, and miss out on the enrage ability. I agree (depending on your playing style) that berserker/cleric does have an edge, but to each their own.


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Old 08-26-2001, 04:31 PM   #28
Legolas the Elven Archer
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Quote:
Originally posted by ScottG:
Ah Mr. pointy ear

another excellent class to take from BG1 through to TOB
especially w/ extra abilty stat increases for dex.

(w/ TOB in mind - in regards to high level special abilities)

would be a fighter theif multiclass

I tested this out w/ Shadow Keeper to see what would happen, giving the char. 8 mil exp. points
This netted about 22 high level special abilities (more than you would get in just one class) and if you like the abilities in one class over another you could just keep selecting that ability.

The problems w/ the high level special abilities are that you can only have one working at a time (ie. you can't combine them) which leads reminds me I need to post another note here

For pure classes early on (dungeon level):
The Archer class early on in SOA is prob. the second best class offensivly, intrestingly enough the Totemic Druid I would place 1st (the reason is that your summoned spirit animal just BLOWS through any opponent in the dungeon - you don't even have to lift a finger.)

The Major prob. w/ the Archer is that several MAJOR opponents appear to be immune to missle wepons (making them MUCH less usefull in the big fights)

I played through the game with an elven figher/thief combo (not giving him/her a dex of 19 is a waste of race, and not letting someone with a dex of 19 have thieving skills is usually a waste as well) and it did work quite well, even without ToB (I still can't find it in the shops here, though it almost has to be there). But, like you said, the Archer is better.

The first time through BG2 I played with an elven archer named Legolas, an ex ranger from BG1. With a dexterity of 20 thanks to the tomes (though it's no different from dex 19) I had so many bonusses to using missile weapons (grand mastery, dex bonus, being-an-archer bonus and a magical bow) that I could easily defeat most enemies without the help of my fellow party members, which I did.
The only problems are the enemies which are immune to weapons of 2+ or less. But, then I would have five fully healed companions, complete with an entire arsenal of spells and plenty of magic weapons (which Legolas provided for them) that I didn't have much of a problem. In fact, I defeated Kangaxx in two tries without thinking it was a difficult fight (first time Minsc was imprisonned and I had no freedom scroll nearby, so I decided to try again).

In any case, I think the archer is one of the better un-dual or -multiclassed kits in the game, and a lot of fun as well.


------------------
The last arrow of Legolas kindled in the air as it flew,
and plunged burning into the heart of a great wolf-chieftain.
All the others fled. -J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings
 
Old 08-26-2001, 04:55 PM   #29
ScottG
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Join Date: June 13, 2003
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Nerull - are you saying that w/ a Ranger Cleric you can choose druid spells all the way up to 7th level? (If so that would be AWESOME!) Something I'll check out tonight. BTW do you also get the ability to backstab, if you do there is the oddity that staffs are a wepon that can backstab that would be acceptable for this class combo.

Legolas - you really need to get TOB (I enjoyed the Watchers Keep the most - and its something you can hit while in SOA, though not something you should untill your well up in level.)
Minor spoiler

There are several ways to improve your dex. again. (at least two more) - lets see that cranks dex. up to 22 (I'm thinking you will get some extra bonuses w/ that kind of increase).
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Old 08-26-2001, 05:05 PM   #30
Nerull
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Quote:
Originally posted by Legolas the Elven Archer:

In any case, I think the archer is one of the better un-dual or -multiclassed kits in the game, and a lot of fun as well.
SPOILER
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Oh, I'm playing one now (if you add ToB before you start a new character in SoA, an elf can go to 19 int and 21 dex!). My elven archer (with the aforementioned 21 dex) blasts everything into nonexistence. I gave him the Helm of Vhailor (simulacrum 1/day) to create another copy of him, then beat up the shadow dragon in one try, with only Anomen losing any significant hp (down to 50%). He gets 5 shots per round with a THACO of -6. This drops to -8 with a Chant, or lower if you use magical arrows (add Improved Haste to get 10 attacks per round; who needs Whirlwind attack? ). Both him and the simulacrum were hitting the dragon 4 or 5 times a round each (using just regular haste, not improved), for around 10 points of damage each hit. We took down his stoneskin before Aerie ever got her breach spell cast! The only restriction is, as you said, the lack of higher-level enchanted arrows. Otherwise, they are mobile artillery pieces!


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