I need Dale II/3rd ed newbie advice

[Peytin of Rothmire]

Okay, I didn't just get off the boat, I am literally still on the boat! I've been through the Dale several times, along with HoW and TOLM. I've both rejected and ascended to the Lord of Murder throne in BG. Finally, I decide to jump into IDW II and thought it wouldn't hurt to scan the booklet as I install. Three complete readthroughs later and I think, maybe, I've figured 3rd edition out. I knew it would be a little bit different but I wasn't quite expecting this.

It seems to me that there are alot of things I have to keep track of. Is that really so? Without getting into the whole multiplayer more-than-one-level-from-your-ideal-class penalties, am I making this too complicated? Part of the reason I loved IDW, HoW, and TOLM was because I had already been through BGI and II and knew the gameplay. IWD was completely refreshing. But now, I feel like everything's changed. I don't know who poor Peytin is anymore, yet alone his five redheaded girlfriends. Are there certain key things I should pay attention to and others that aren't that important?

All thoughts welcome.

[Magness]

Here's some tips....


1, Don't assume that all of the familiar old spells work exactly the same. Some do, some do not. Stoneskin isn't quite as strong as before. Entangle only works outside. You don't really need to read up on every spell. Just cast away as normal and you should still be OK.


2. Character stat allocation is different. I don't just mean IWD1 (and BG1/2's_ die roll system vs IWD2's point buy system. I also mean that the 3rd ed rules have some slightly different emphasises and in 3rd ed armor works differently.

For example, in 2nd ed games like IWD1, tanks (i.e. fighters, pallys, and rangers)tend to max out their AC by maxing out their DEX. There was no relationship between armor and DEX. HOWEVER, in IWD3, there *is* a relationship between an armor's AC bonus and DEX. Lighter armors are more flexible and allow more dextrous characters to get the benefit of their hi DEX's added to their AC. OTOH, heavy armors are stiff and limit motion and only allow a small amout of DEX bonus (or none at all) to be added to their AC. This stat is refered to as "Max DEX bonus" and is listed in every armor's description.

The net effect ends up being that high DEX characters wearing good leather armor can end up with the same, if not higher, AC as a low DEX characters wearing a great set of plate armor.

[pritchke]

I had the same problem, but the best way to get used to the game is start playing it, yes you will make mistakes in developing your characters, but there is no better substitute for experience and you can play the game again after.

[Magness]

I agree with pritchke.

However, one other point.

In IWD2, there's a small change in the stats that drive spellcasting.

Sorcerors and Bards have CHA as their spellcasting stat.

Clerics, druids, paladins, and rangers still use WIS for spellcasting.

And wizards still use INT for spellcasting.


Furthermore, the maximum spell level that a caster can cast is determined by their spellcasting stat. That is, the highest spell level that a sorceror with a CHA of 14 could cast is a level 4 spell. It is determined by the following formula, (spellcasting stat)-10 == maximum castable spell level.


Oh.... also, be aware that every 4 levels (i.e. 4, 8, 12, etc.) you will get an additional stat point to allocate to your character.

[motub]

My advice is: Save a lot.

Save before you level up. Save after levelling and continue. If you find as you progress through a section or area that you "mis-allocated" your points, feats, or level, go back to the "before you levelled" save and choose differently.

If you're going to multi-class any characters, plan it now, at the beginning. Your plan will change and deepen as you progress through the game, but because around level 10 you're going to get much more locked in in terms of deciding how to maximize the strengths of the "major" class of a dual/multi-class character, you'll want to have some idea in the early levels which class to level each time. This also affects your allocation of feats and skills to some extent-- my dual-class Monk of the Old Order/rogue doesn't need any feats in Spell Penetration, but a Monk of Mystra that you intend to dual-class to wizard or sorceror would, so all of the points that you don't have to put into Weapons Specialization (because it's a monk, who fights better unarmed) can go to Spell Penetration, even before you have actually dual-classed him/her.

And of course you have to consider how you're going to work around the penalties and blocks beforehand. If you are going to try something bizarre, like I did, and take an Aasimar, start her as a Pally (which is her favored class), then dual her to a barbarian, you will want to make some decisions, because once I dualled her, she couldn't go further as a Pally. So-- did I want her to have spells? That would mean that she'd have to level as a Pally to at least level 4 before I dualled her. And if you plan a Wizard/Rogue, but want to give him/her a couple of levels of Fighter first, for the HP, you run the risk of getting a penalty between the middle-level class and the Fighter class, even if the character is human (since only the highest level is ignored, if the other two classes are more than one level apart, you'll get the penalty).

So most of the things that you have to "keep track of" are during character creation. After that, it's mostly a matter of playing the game and seeing how your choices play out, and thinking up clever ways to make the choices that didn't work out how you planned, work for you anyway [img]smile.gif[/img] .

[Sagramore]

my advice...play with dwarves...make an all dwarf party...just because everyone else says they have weaknesses, we all really know that dwarves are the best race...but now that we've accomplished that...i would say wait until you've beaten the game to really go foreign with your classes...play through the game with a fighter, a pally, a cleric etc. and then after you've beaten it and are more familiar, you should make more elaborate classes, like Ranger/Thieves and Cleric/Barbarians (??).

[Peytin of Rothmire]

Thanks everyone. This is what I decided to go with:

Gold Dwarf Bard - chosen to be lead character for conv skills;as I'm still at the docks, he's just singing at this point; hard to tell if that matters all that much against goblins

Half-Orc Barbarian - main frontline character for battles; dual wielding; bits of green flesh flying everywhere

Human Battleguard of Tempus Cleric - obvious healing powers but also needed another decent melee character

Human Broken Bones Monk - never played a monk before, but I thought "new game, why not?"; we'll see. Right now she is armed and is staying in the backround; I'll give her a sling when I find one

Tiefling Rogue - She will be multied to Ranger for at least one level;seems like a good combo; some say to just give her one level of Ranger for the free dual and wilderness abilities; If she gets more Ranger levels, that should increase HP correct? I want her to reach higher rogue levels to have some fun but would like the HP too. Any thoughts?

Drow Wizard - After journeying through the Underdark in BGII, how could you not throw a Drow in the party. Naturally female, what good would a male Drow be anyway? Considering she's a wizard and I'm in the very first area of the game, she isn't doing anything yet.

Are there any consequences for having a party with mixed alignment? I'm comfortably with everyone except the Drow, as I made her Chaotic Good to get along with everyone but am having a bit of a RP dilemna with regards to a good Drow. I guess I can justify her as a renegade like Drizzt.

Also, am I too tank-light? This is the first time I've ever played IWD or BG without a paladin, who was usually my main speaker, party leader, and tank, with a fighter tank backup. I went with a more battle-hardy cleric to try to compensate, but I worry that the barbarian, while she seems like she will be a good attacker, won't be able to suck up the enemy damage. It appears I will have to wait awhile for the monk to come into her own as well.In the meantime, the monk and the rogue will serve as scouts.

I am not decided yet on dualing any of the other characters. Perhaps the Bard to a fighter for a few levels. But I think I want the rest of the party to advance as fast as possible.

[Micah Foehammer]

I think you have a great starting party - and have tagged to key issues about the "tank-light" composition. The previous posts provided some excellent ideas - and if the original party doesn't work, just dump and start over.

BTW, for strictly role-playing reasons, a Drow FEMALE wizard is as unlikely as a GOOD Drow. [img]smile.gif[/img] The Drow matriarchal hierarchy provides NO options for Female Wizards. The females are Clerics and the Males are wizards.

There is ONE exception that is outlined in the War of the Spider Queen series - where a female does exhibit arcane casting abilities but it is a VERY special case and she is first and foremost a cleric.

[Hiram Sedai]

Originally posted by Sagramore: my advice...play with dwarves...make an all dwarf party...just because everyone else says they have weaknesses, we all really know that dwarves are the best race...

Amen Brother!! My lead char is a gold dwarf named Hiram. Who'da thunk it?

[pritchke]

Originally posted by Micah Foehammer: I think you have a great starting party - and have tagged to key issues about the "tank-light" composition. The previous posts provided some excellent ideas - and if the original party doesn't work, just dump and start over. BTW, for strictly role-playing reasons, a Drow FEMALE wizard is as unlikely as a GOOD Drow. [img]smile.gif[/img] The Drow matriarchal hierarchy provides NO options for Female Wizards. The females are Clerics and the Males are wizards. There is ONE exception that is outlined in the War of the Spider Queen series - where a female does exhibit arcane casting abilities but it is a VERY special case and she is first and foremost a cleric.

Actually in "Realms of the underdark", there was a short story about a female Drow wizard in training, her mentor was also a mage as well as the daughter of the mentor. The story was that she was better than her metor's daughter so her mentor's daughter tried to kill her on her coming of age day. The mentor managed to get a slave who was actually a powerful Red Wizard of They try to kill her in exchange for his freedom. Very good story but it is unique because of the 3 drow female mages. So while rare it is justified as a role-playable character, it is not as if they are not existant in drow society it is just not the norm. The head mage was a male but he wanted his daughter to become one and to train under a female. I believe the thing is that if a female possess unique abilities the head wizard can allow her training to take place.

[ 10-22-2003, 09:45 AM: Message edited by: pritchke ]