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Old 08-18-2005, 11:41 PM   #1
krunchyfrogg
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I want to play a stealthy backstabbing thief-type. How high do these skills need to be to be an effective hider?
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Old 08-19-2005, 12:20 AM   #2
Brainless One
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The actual amount is up to you, but I believe the true percentage of Hide in Shadows is the average of Hide in Shadows and Move Silently, though it is better to put more points into Move Silently because. . . hm, I don't remember for sure, but I think it was because Hide in Shadows caps at a certain amount and Move Silently continues to help you for longer. . . or something. Sorry I don't really recall, but Move Silently is the more important!
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Old 08-19-2005, 01:30 AM   #3
SixOfSpades
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For entering Stealth: (HiS + MS) / 2 = Your % chance of success.

For remaining in Stealth: MS = Your % chance of success.

The amount of time for which you will stay in Stealth after you "Leave Shadows" is determined by your MS score.

Man, this keyboard sucks. Anyway, as you can see, Hide in Shadows is barely implemented, though I hope this is something that can be fixed in some Tweak mod. Anyway, ideally, it's good to have your HiS around 50 and your MS around 100. That way, you've got a 75% chance of dropping out of sight when you need to, and a 100% chance of not blowing your cover. Personal preference varies, of course: I like to pretend that I don't know how gimped HiS is, and so treat both skills equally, putting both skills above 75% when I can.

Note: 100% does not guarantee invisibility. There are penalties for trying to Stealth in broad daylight, just as there are bonuses for hiding in dark areas with lots of cover. Also, I believe that even if your Move Silently is 250%, you will still break Stealth if you roll a 1.
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Old 08-19-2005, 02:00 AM   #4
Brainless One
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Wow, I have posts surrounding SixOfSpades! I feel like celebrity-crazed fans. Anyway, isn't there also a limit we should keep an eye out for that wraps around at like 256%, making it negative? This feels like a good place to mention it, though I may be making stuff up out of my head, I'm pretty tired.
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Old 08-19-2005, 09:01 PM   #5
SixOfSpades
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http://www.geocities.com/sixospades/bg/thief.htm
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Old 08-19-2005, 09:23 PM   #6
Assassin
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Note that for those powergamers that most of the time, you'll only be going into the shadows out of battle, where you have all of the time in the world. Therefore, the most important skill is Move Silently, as you can keep on rolling until you get into the shadows..

SoS, doesn't Move Silently also control the amount of time a character stays invisible after it says 'Leaving the shadows'? I mean, there's a period after you enter combat where you haven't yet backstabbed but are still 'leaving the shadows'. Depending on your weapon speed, I've sometimes had characters become visible before striking.
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Old 08-19-2005, 11:07 PM   #7
krunchyfrogg
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sixofspades, if you really wanted to powergame this, are you saying you should have a 200 in Move Silently?
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Old 08-20-2005, 02:00 PM   #8
SixOfSpades
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Quote:
Originally posted by Assassin:
Note that for those powergamers that most of the time, you'll only be going into the shadows out of battle, where you have all of the time in the world.
Are you kidding? You've never heard of Backstabbing someone, Boots of Speeding it around a corner and disappearing again for another Backstab? There are plenty of times in the game where you do not want to be left visible for the entire round it takes to be able to into Stealth again.

Quote:
doesn't Move Silently also control the amount of time a character stays invisible after it says 'Leaving the shadows'?
Reread my first post in the thread.


Quote:
Originally posted by krunchyfrogg:
if you really wanted to powergame this, are you saying you should have a 200 in Move Silently?
Yup. The more the better, though I doubt I'd go past 240, at least until I was sure exactly where the "wraparound point" is.
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Old 08-20-2005, 03:44 PM   #9
Assassin
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Quote:
The amount of time for which you will stay in Stealth after you "Leave Shadows" is determined by your MS score.
Yeah, I can't read. =/

Quote:
Are you kidding? You've never heard of Backstabbing someone, Boots of Speeding it around a corner and disappearing again for another Backstab? There are plenty of times in the game where you do not want to be left visible for the entire round it takes to be able to into Stealth again.
There are at least two Rings of Invisibility available early on. Along of which are the countless Invisibility Potions or if you really, really, really need to go invisible, the Invisibility spell. After all, how many times are you going to go invisible in a single battle?

And I don't mean resting after every single battle. After a couple of backstabs, along with your backline and frontline pounding on them, the enemy will usually die. Another battle, another couple of backstabs. Parcel it out.

[ 08-20-2005, 03:51 PM: Message edited by: Assassin ]
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Old 08-21-2005, 02:31 AM   #10
SixOfSpades
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Quote:
Originally posted by Assassin:
There are at least two Rings of Invisibility available early on. Along of which are the countless Invisibility Potions .... after a couple of backstabs, along with your backline and frontline pounding on them, the enemy will usually die.
Oh, okay--somewhere along the line, I started thinking we were talking about a Solo Thief here. Or someone who at least makes full use of their Thief, scouting ahead and invisibly checking for Traps and contributing at least one good Backstab to every single fight. And both of those cases mean the need for lots and lots of Stealth, many many more times than any stock of Invisiblity Potions anyone's likely to have, and to have it be reliable every time--although everyone should keep Invis. Potions in the quickslots at all times, for emergencies.
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