Single/Dual Wielding

Feral · 10-30-2003, 01:01 PM

Since there is an ongoing thread about THAC0 vs. damage, I thought I'd ask something along similar lines (but different enough to start a new topic):

My PC is a ranger who is dual-wielding the CF and the Equalizer. He's got a +3 spear - The Impaler (+10 damage) - in his bag but hardly ever uses it because I can't be bothered to keep switching (same with his Heartseeker Bow). I can't decide what makes more sense to use as default weapons. Any thoughts? By the way, I don't have anyone else who is proficient in katanas and my AC is -3.

Raistlin Majere · 10-30-2003, 01:16 PM

well, thats really a question of taste...some like to dual-wield, some dont. dual-wielding just allows alot of damage in a short time, with a slight sacrifice of thaco(mainly for the off-hand, but it only gets 1 ApR, so who gives a rat's a**?).

Xen · 10-30-2003, 01:37 PM

I dual wield becuase i can have effects from both weapons like Stun from CFury and healing from Adjatha The Drinker. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Feral · 10-30-2003, 02:13 PM

And therein lies my problem. Most of the time, having two weapons instead of one adds up to more damage and special effects. So, if you're just looking at that, nobody would ever use a two-handed weapon. I'm starting to think that I'll give him the spear and the bow, and keep the katana in reserve (the Equalizer has been a disappointment, after all the effort to assemble it). It's just that it's tought to let go of the extra attack with the off-hand without getting a shield bonus in return.

Faceman · 10-30-2003, 02:16 PM

Well, some weapons are worth it and the Impaler IMO is among them (Carsomyr however is the most shining example).

Sukodin · 10-30-2003, 02:23 PM

On the same thought.. I currently have Minsc and my theif duel weilding weapons.. Minsc is using long sward's and the thief is using short swords.. Should I start putting points into other type weapons to throw in their hands later in the game?

Feral · 10-30-2003, 06:52 PM

Probably.
What stage of the game are you at?
What are the other party members using?
Long swords as a category practically rule the game, while short swords have some good special abilities. That being said, there are some amazing other weapons later on.

Faceman · 10-30-2003, 07:22 PM

Dual Wielding gives you an extra attack/round, the Impaler for example gives you an extra 10dmg which is more than many Longsword attacks will do. So the samage is not necessarily the prime advantage of Dual-Wielding.
That is IMHO the possibility to use even more enchantments (strenghth modifiers, resistances, free action,...) that come with equipping a weapon.

masteraleph · 10-30-2003, 09:16 PM

There are a few 2 handed weapons worth it. Carsomyr, the Silver Sword, and Impaler are among them. In TOB, there are some other extremely powerful two handed weapons- ones that represent the power 2-h should have over 1-h weapons.

Klutz · 10-31-2003, 10:59 AM

The way to really abuse dual-wielding is using specific weapons in the off-hand that grant +1 APR as a bonus. Not only does that effectively give you +2 APR over what you'd get single wielding or with a two-handed weapon, but the extra attacks granted by those weapons go to your main-hand weapon when the +1 APR weapon is in your off-hand.

Specific item spoilers
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The two main +1 APR weapons are Belm (Scimitar +2), and Kundane (Short Sword +2). There is a third, the Scarlet Ninja-To (Scimitar +3, poison dmg) which is sold by one of the Bonus Merchants (see the forum FAQ for details), but it can only be used by Monks. TOB has a high-level ability for Rogues that permits them to use that weapon also, granting them a third options.

The scary thing is that Impaler is SO nasty with its +10 piercing damage that it actually comes close in raw damage to Celestial Fury dual-wielded with Belm, but is still edged out by the dual-wield combo. However, Impaler on its own should definitely outperform Celestial Fury + Equalizer in raw damage, as long as you have the right proficiencies. Note that as a Ranger you have ** in Two-Weapon Style for free, but if you want two-handed weapon style you will need to put the points in... and with Impaler I'd say it's well worth it.

I'm at work so I can't take the time to do the full math, but search around and there are other older threads dealing with damage calculations. Even so, you may find the stun from Celestial Fury useful enough that the sacrifice of some raw damage to have a oftentimes stunned opponent may be worth it for you.

10-30-2003, 01:01 PM	#1
Feral Elminster Join Date: August 27, 2003 Location: The Great White North Age: 51 Posts: 462	Since there is an ongoing thread about THAC0 vs. damage, I thought I'd ask something along similar lines (but different enough to start a new topic): My PC is a ranger who is dual-wielding the CF and the Equalizer. He's got a +3 spear - The Impaler (+10 damage) - in his bag but hardly ever uses it because I can't be bothered to keep switching (same with his Heartseeker Bow). I can't decide what makes more sense to use as default weapons. Any thoughts? By the way, I don't have anyone else who is proficient in katanas and my AC is -3. __________________ Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger.

10-30-2003, 01:16 PM	#2
Raistlin Majere Ra Join Date: March 26, 2002 Location: Finland Age: 37 Posts: 2,323	well, thats really a question of taste...some like to dual-wield, some dont. dual-wielding just allows alot of damage in a short time, with a slight sacrifice of thaco(mainly for the off-hand, but it only gets 1 ApR, so who gives a rat's a**?). __________________ If the radiance of a thousand suns were to burst forth at once in the sky, that would be like the splendor of the Mighty One. "I am become death, the destroyer of worlds."

10-30-2003, 02:13 PM	#4
Feral Elminster Join Date: August 27, 2003 Location: The Great White North Age: 51 Posts: 462	And therein lies my problem. Most of the time, having two weapons instead of one adds up to more damage and special effects. So, if you're just looking at that, nobody would ever use a two-handed weapon. I'm starting to think that I'll give him the spear and the bow, and keep the katana in reserve (the Equalizer has been a disappointment, after all the effort to assemble it). It's just that it's tought to let go of the extra attack with the off-hand without getting a shield bonus in return. __________________ Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger.

10-30-2003, 02:16 PM	#5
Faceman Hathor Join Date: February 18, 2002 Location: Vienna Age: 43 Posts: 2,248	Well, some weapons are worth it and the Impaler IMO is among them (Carsomyr however is the most shining example). __________________ \"I am forever spellbound by the frailty of life\"<br /><br /> Faceman

10-30-2003, 02:23 PM	#6
Sukodin Dungeon Master Join Date: October 13, 2003 Location: Tulsa, OK Age: 47 Posts: 53	On the same thought.. I currently have Minsc and my theif duel weilding weapons.. Minsc is using long sward's and the thief is using short swords.. Should I start putting points into other type weapons to throw in their hands later in the game? __________________ Sukodin

10-30-2003, 01:37 PM	#3
Xen Symbol of Moradin Join Date: June 5, 2002 Location: Slovenia,Ljubljana Age: 37 Posts: 8,554	I dual wield becuase i can have effects from both weapons like Stun from CFury and healing from Adjatha The Drinker. [img]smile.gif[/img]

10-30-2003, 06:52 PM	#7
Feral Elminster Join Date: August 27, 2003 Location: The Great White North Age: 51 Posts: 462	Probably. What stage of the game are you at? What are the other party members using? Long swords as a category practically rule the game, while short swords have some good special abilities. That being said, there are some amazing other weapons later on. __________________ Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger.

10-30-2003, 07:22 PM	#8
Faceman Hathor Join Date: February 18, 2002 Location: Vienna Age: 43 Posts: 2,248	Dual Wielding gives you an extra attack/round, the Impaler for example gives you an extra 10dmg which is more than many Longsword attacks will do. So the samage is not necessarily the prime advantage of Dual-Wielding. That is IMHO the possibility to use even more enchantments (strenghth modifiers, resistances, free action,...) that come with equipping a weapon. __________________ \"I am forever spellbound by the frailty of life\"<br /><br /> Faceman

10-30-2003, 09:16 PM	#9
masteraleph Elminster Join Date: March 1, 2001 Posts: 400	There are a few 2 handed weapons worth it. Carsomyr, the Silver Sword, and Impaler are among them. In TOB, there are some other extremely powerful two handed weapons- ones that represent the power 2-h should have over 1-h weapons.

10-31-2003, 10:59 AM	#10
Klutz Manshoon Join Date: November 9, 2002 Location: Houston, TX Age: 52 Posts: 240	The way to really abuse dual-wielding is using specific weapons in the off-hand that grant +1 APR as a bonus. Not only does that effectively give you +2 APR over what you'd get single wielding or with a two-handed weapon, but the extra attacks granted by those weapons go to your main-hand weapon when the +1 APR weapon is in your off-hand. Specific item spoilers . . . . . . . . . . . The two main +1 APR weapons are Belm (Scimitar +2), and Kundane (Short Sword +2). There is a third, the Scarlet Ninja-To (Scimitar +3, poison dmg) which is sold by one of the Bonus Merchants (see the forum FAQ for details), but it can only be used by Monks. TOB has a high-level ability for Rogues that permits them to use that weapon also, granting them a third options. The scary thing is that Impaler is SO nasty with its +10 piercing damage that it actually comes close in raw damage to Celestial Fury dual-wielded with Belm, but is still edged out by the dual-wield combo. However, Impaler on its own should definitely outperform Celestial Fury + Equalizer in raw damage, as long as you have the right proficiencies. Note that as a Ranger you have ** in Two-Weapon Style for free, but if you want two-handed weapon style you will need to put the points in... and with Impaler I'd say it's well worth it. I'm at work so I can't take the time to do the full math, but search around and there are other older threads dealing with damage calculations. Even so, you may find the stun from Celestial Fury useful enough that the sacrifice of some raw damage to have a oftentimes stunned opponent may be worth it for you. __________________ ->Klutz

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