A Russian perspective on the tragedy

ah man....... my glorious sig aint there; oh well, just you have to remember it..... (til I post it again!) MWAHAHAHAHA!!!! i am the spam king; though looking for options on controlling my hunger to jeoperdize threads by spamming with my terrible rpg spam attacks!


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But does guilty by association really count? Sure Bin Ladin is a leader of extremist muslims, and fights to remove non-muslims from any influence in muslim countries,he said it himself that all he wants. Its quite possible the people responsible for supporting the terrorists, know Bin Ladin, Trained at his terror camps, but acted on their own. Sure he is guilty of military training and other ways of supporting terrorists in order to mount jihad, but only clear, direct and consise evidence linking him to recent events will sway me. Innocent til proven guilty, thats what the American legal system is grounded upon, even for perpatrators of such heinious crimes.

Ultimatly, the powers of propaganda (russia included) are using him as a focal point for all the anger, pain, and sorrow these tragic events have caused. Got to have a face for the enemy to spit upon it! Plus, as its been mentioned russia was defeated in Afganistan back when it was the U.S.S.R., because of the the leadership of Bin Ladin, who at the time was supported covertly by the U.S. hmmm. Revenge is sweet and Putin did fight against him....and lose.

[Tananda]

Originally posted by G'kar: But does guilty by association really count? Sure Bin Ladin is a leader of extremist muslims, and fights to remove non-muslims from any influence in muslim countries,he said it himself that all he wants. Its quite possible the people responsible for supporting the terrorists, know Bin Ladin, Trained at his terror camps, but acted on their own. Sure he is guilty of military training and other ways of supporting terrorists in order to mount jihad, but only clear, direct and consise evidence linking him to recent events will sway me. Innocent til proven guilty, thats what the American legal system is grounded upon, even for perpatrators of such heinious crimes. Ultimatly, the powers of propaganda (russia included) are using him as a focal point for all the anger, pain, and sorrow these tragic events have caused. Got to have a face for the enemy to spit upon it! Plus, as its been mentioned russia was defeated in Afganistan back when it was the U.S.S.R., because of the the leadership of Bin Ladin, who at the time was supported covertly by the U.S. hmmm. Revenge is sweet and Putin did fight against him....and lose.

It is obvious that Russia wants to be sure that ben Ladin is actually guilty before participating in any actions agains him. As for propaganda, as far as I know, USA was the first country who said that he was suspected.
And about "sweet revenge"... Do you really believe in what you're saying? That might be funny if wasn't so sad. I mean - it is really sad that you think in this way about Russia and its president.


[This message has been edited by Tananda (edited 09-16-2001).]

Originally posted by Tananda: It is obvious that Russia wants to be sure that ben Ladin is actually guilty before participating in any actions agains him. As for propaganda, as far as I know, USA was the first country who said that he was suspected. And about "sweet revenge"... Do you really believe in what you're saying? That might be funny if wasn't so sad. I mean - it is really sad that you think in this way about Russia and its president. [This message has been edited by Tananda (edited 09-16-2001).]

No, I was just speculating and I meant that revenge is sweet to some. I know very little about Mr. Putin. Not enough to draw any fact-based conclusions concerning this issue, Pure speculation on my part. I believe in continuing to grow a strong relationship between russia and the u.s. And from what I've read of Mr. Putin, he seems ok to me. I sincerely hope that revenge is not a motive for any our nations. Justice is what I believe in. I humbly put my foot in my speculating mouth

"revenge is bucket with a hole in the bottom, it can only hold emptiness"- Buddist saying



[This message has been edited by G'kar (edited 09-16-2001).]

[Tananda]

Thanks, G'kar.
You know, it is not too pleasant to see in some foreign newspapers articles about Russia not being sincere in its motivations concerning help in the fight agains terrorists. I am Russian and I sympatize with USA with all my heart and truly sincere, and I know that majority of our people (including government) are thinking the same way, so I feel hurt when I hear about revenge and other deep motives. We remember very well terracts in Moscow and it is not desire of revenge, this is only sorrow and understanding how one can feel during such awful events.



[This message has been edited by Tananda (edited 09-16-2001).]

Originally posted by Tananda: Thanks, G'kar. You know, it is not too pleasant to see in some foreign newspapers articles about Russia not being sincere in its motivations concerning help in the fight agains terrorists. I am Russian and I sympatize with USA with all my heart and truly sincere, and I know that majority of our people (including government) are thinking the same way, so I feel hurt when I hear about revenge and other deep motives. We remember very well terracts in Moscow and it is not desire of revenge, this is only sorrow and understanding how one can feel during such awful events. [This message has been edited by Tananda (edited 09-16-2001).]

Bless you and your nation Tananda! I know that russia has had its share of loss to terrorist attacks. It is sorrowful that many innocent lives around the world are lost because of the ideals of a few. Again my apologies for implying any qualities of low character in regards to Mr. Putin.
Just so you know, Russia and President Putin get high marks in the media here and he sure impressed our President Bush when they met a while back, so he said anyway.
Peace,
Scott

[John D Harris]

Tananda,
Who would have thought it, USA and Russia. I grew up in the cold war era, born the year before the Cuban missle crisis, and lived on USAF bases. My homes were allways on the target list. I grew-up thinking that eventually I'd have to shoot you guys, but there are peaceful ways out. Saber rattling is part of diplomacy, it brings pressure on the intended target.

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"the memories of a man in his old age,
are deeds of a man in his prime"

[Tananda]

Originally posted by John D Harris: Tananda, Who would have thought it, USA and Russia. I grew up in the cold war era, born the year before the Cuban missle crisis, and lived on USAF bases. My homes were allways on the target list. I grew-up thinking that eventually I'd have to shoot you guys, but there are peaceful ways out. Saber rattling is part of diplomacy, it brings pressure on the intended target.

I was born too late to feel myself what that cold war was I'm 25 now and I do not remember any propaganda against USA - that is why I am so hurt and confused when hearing something about *deep motives of Russia*, etc.
I think I'm lucky not to be witness of that hostility
We are from different countries, but we all are people, and it is so natural to sympathize with someone who suffers tragedy.

Thank for the kind words, G'kar
I like Putin myself, and - honestly - he is the first worthy leader in Russia in 20th century (well, I hope so )

Hugs,
Tanda

[Memnoch]

I hope things work out well for your country and your region, Tanda. Never lose faith!

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[John D Harris]

Originally posted by Tananda: I was born too late to feel myself what that cold war was I'm 25 now and I do not remember any propaganda against USA - that is why I am so hurt and confused when hearing something about *deep motives of Russia*, etc. I think I'm lucky not to be witness of that hostility We are from different countries, but we all are people, and it is so natural to sympathize with someone who suffers tragedy. Thank for the kind words, G'kar I like Putin myself, and - honestly - he is the first worthy leader in Russia in 20th century (well, I hope so ) Hugs, Tanda

Tananda,
I'm glad that you did not have to live through the cold war stuff. I was very impressed with your country during the colapse, a complete change of politcal course with a minimum of blood shed. My hats off to you.



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"the memories of a man in his old age,
are deeds of a man in his prime"