Cleric spells no good?

[perivar]

I've got Jaheira in my party, and when I compare her spells with the ones of Dynaheir I become so sad. Not only are 4 out of every 5 scrolls you find for mages, but the ones suitable for Jaheira sucks (except cure light wound).

I have finally found a good 3rd level spell (Call lightning), but honestly what's the cleric got against the mage?

Just use Jaheira's healing spells. I do that.

[I wish my name was Baggins]

I have learned both through personal gameplay and from this forum that at low levels (which is what the XP CAP of BGI/TOSC forces upon you) that Clerics and Druids are not the most powerful of spell casters...ESPECIALLY on offense. The only two offensive spells I even bother to memorize is Call Lightning which as cool as it is is only available outdoors which greatly reduces its usefulness as you almost never fight outdoors after you are powerful enough to learn the spell. And the vine tangle spell you can memorize as soon as you are a player...the name escapes me. But either way unless you are playing a cleric or a druid I would just let it go and use your NPC's exclusively as healers. If you are playing as a cleric or a druid then I can say that hope is on the horizon because I have heard...no personal experience yet in BGII...that clerics as their levels grow can become pretty solid offensive characters...especially with your ability to turn undead which is all but useless in BGI.

[Albromor]

The problem, as I see it, is that most people don't know the reason or have the understanding of clerics and how to play them. Clerics have use of one of the most important wands in the game: Wand of Heavens. I think some serious clarification of the difference between mage spells and cleric spells are needed here:

1. Mage spells are obtained by scrolls. Cleric spells are obtained by their diety through level advancement meaning that as the cleric advances each level they are either, a. given more spells in the same level or, b. they gain new additional spells at advanced stages. In other words, you will not find many cleric spells on scrolls because unlike mages they don't have to write them in their books, they're automatically given.

2. Mages are basically offensive in mission. The mission of clerics is to heal and protect (defensive in nature). Both are creucial to a healthy party.

3. I challenge you to refer to your manual concerning cleric spells and read what they provide. here are the ones I use the most:

Level 1 -
Bless - so important to a low level party before battle; real good for advanced conflicts.

Cure Light Wounds - absolutely essential at low levels

Entangle - Tremendous party saver at low levels; allows your group to pick off creatures rather than be overwhelmed

Remove Fear - even at high levels characters often miss their saving throw against the Mage "fear" spell.

Sanctuary - as long as you don't attack, your cleric can go around healing party members in the midst of battles; great thing to have in high level conflicts because sometimes my tanks will take a criticle hit and there is no way they can back out without dieing first. So, send in your cleric and have him cast heal.

Level 2 -

Chant - I cast this on the party before every major battle

Find Traps - think its not needed because you have a thief with 110% in Find Traps? Think again! There are traps in Durlag's Tower that can ONLY be detected by a "Find Traps" spell. Yes, it takes some time and patience but it is well worth it.

Silence 15' Radius - puts enemy spellcasters in the "useless" column. Yes, your spell casters are out of commission but that's when you let your tanks take over.

* I could go on and on. Do yourself a favor and look at these 3rd and 4th level
spells: Animate Dead, Call Lightning, Dispell Magic (Unbelieveably helpful),
Miscast Magic, Rigid Thinking, Animal Summoning One, Cure Serious Wounds,
Animal Summoning Two, Cure Critical Wounds, Flame Strike (powerful offensive spell), Raise Dead. Once you learn to use a cleric effectively they make a great tandem with your mage. Hope this helps.

[Telchar of Nogrod]

It's apples and oranges. You can't fit a cleric shaped peg in a mage shaped hole. Use mages for offence and clerics for defence. Protection From Fire and Lightning and Free Action are invaluable for your tanks as your mage hurls webs,fireballs and lightning bolts into melee without affecting said tanks. Protection from evil 15ft radious is a nice one as well. I also use them for dispell magic so my mage doesn't have to use up any super valuable third level spell slots. I'm not saying that they are as powerfull as mages, but when they are used corectly, they can be invaluable to your party.

[Keraptisdm]

Where would my protagonist be without a Cleric in the party? Dead. Everyone above have listed excellent points about clerics. If you think of them as part of your defense, and not offense, then you will be placing them in a more traditional role.

[Albromor]

Good posts on clerics here by several of you. Here are some other advantages. 1) Clerics can use every type of armor that a fighter can use without a penalty to spell casting. 2) They can be used as an offensive tank if needed. By the AD&D parameters, clerics are actually 2nd in terms of melee' combat. 3) Thus, they can use a fair amount of weapons and I really like to use them with a sling and bullets.

BG2 really makes the cleric a MUCH more viable PC/NPC. BG1 is notorious for weighing heavily in favor of fighters/rangers/paladins especially in the weapon catagory, etc. BG@ gives a whole lot more cool weapons usable by clerics and a ton more useful spells.

[Keraptisdm]

Originally posted by Albromor: Good posts on clerics here by several of you. Here are some other advantages. 1) Clerics can use every type of armor that a fighter can use without a penalty to spell casting. 2) They can be used as an offensive tank if needed. By the AD&D parameters, clerics are actually 2nd in terms of melee' combat. 3) Thus, they can use a fair amount of weapons and I really like to use them with a sling and bullets. BG2 really makes the cleric a MUCH more viable PC/NPC. BG1 is notorious for weighing heavily in favor of fighters/rangers/paladins especially in the weapon catagory, etc. BG@ gives a whole lot more cool weapons usable by clerics and a ton more useful spells.

With all of that in mind, I started a new game in BG1 with a Cleric (Lawful Good, of course), with the idea of exporting him into BG2 where he should become quite powerful.

Speaking of Cleric spells, I wonder why BG1, BG2, IWD did not incorporate the various "Light" & "Darkness" spells??

"Light" & "Darkness" spells.

Could you give some more information about that? It sounds interesting [img]graemlins/cheers.gif[/img]

[Keraptisdm]

In the Pen and Pencil Advanced Dungeon and Dragons (PnP, AD&D), there are some spells that did not make their way over to BG, BG2, IWD. Two of these that quickly come to mind are the "Light" and it's inverse, "Darkness" spells.
Cast light spell, and you create light for a set radius. Cast "Darkness", and you eliminate light (rather than create darkness) for a set radius. Certain monsters (Drow, demons) have the innate ability to cast "Darkness", which creates havoc for anyone without infravision, or without "Light" spells. I would have used the "Light" spell when walking around the towns at night. (Casting "Light" while in the open at night would be like placing a beacon for all monsters to find you. )
Any old PnPers out there that can assist me here?