discussion of "$$$ is the current trend in game design"

[ZFR]

Originally posted by Sir Krustin: I prefer the term enlightened self interest to greedy.

See? See? There you go again. . Vague answer which could mean anything and hence means nothing. Unless you explain and define what exactly you mean by "enlightened self interest" I don't know whether to agree, disagree with it or how to comment it in any way.

concrete:
relating to an actual, specific thing or instance.
existing in reality or in real experience; perceptible by the senses; real.
representing or applied to an actual substance or thing.

Does this adjective fit the phrase you used?

[Luvian]

Originally posted by ZFR: quote: Originally posted by Sir Krustin: I prefer the term enlightened self interest to greedy.

See? See? There you go again. . Vague answer which could mean anything and hence means nothing. Unless you explain and define what exactly you mean by "enlightened self interest" I don't know whether to agree, disagree with it or how to comment it in any way.

concrete:
relating to an actual, specific thing or instance.
existing in reality or in real experience; perceptible by the senses; real.
representing or applied to an actual substance or thing.

Does this adjective fit the phrase you used? [/QUOTE]I already gave you my concrete answer about 3 posts up the thread. Edit: 3 of my posts.

So if that's the only point you keep raising, I'm assuming you agree with everything else we said?

[ 08-29-2006, 09:00 PM: Message edited by: Luvian ]

[Vaskez]

ZFR is a gangsta.

[ZFR]

Originally posted by Luvian: I already gave you my concrete answer about 3 posts up the thread.

I only noticed the edit now. ok, thanks for your answer.

Originally posted by Luvian: So if that's the only point you keep raising

That's not the only point I keep raising.

Originally posted by Luvian: I'm assuming you agree with everything else we said?

I do not know what you are assuming.

[ZFR]

Originally posted by Luvian: Or they can keep releasing crappy diablo clones and unknown shooters, I'm sure releasing the exact same product than everyone else is a good idea. Market saturation is a good thing, right?

[I think someone else wrote about this; that if a good game comes out, you'll pretty soon get thousands of its clones, but I can't find the quote. I could be wrong]

You'll get that in all products. Rather than producing something new, companies copy off another successful idea.
Look at movies for example, you get hundreds of clones of the good movies.

And... I simply don't watch them. Just as I don't spend my money on those games.

Can you name any 'diablo clone' that made money and was a commercial success?
That's my point from the beginning. If $$$ is your motivation, than you cannot make bad clone games, because those won't get you money.

[ 08-30-2006, 06:34 AM: Message edited by: ZFR ]

[Luvian]

[quote]Originally posted by ZFR:

Originally posted by Luvian: [qb] Can you name any 'diablo clone' that made money and was a commercial success? That's my point from the beginning. If $$$ is your motivation, than you cannot make bad clone games, because those won't get you money.

Sacred, Divine Divinity, maybe Titan Quest we need more time on that one, I'm not sure about their sales, but I think Nox was a success back then too. That's just some.

[ZFR]

Originally posted by Luvian: Sacred, Divine Divinity, maybe Titan Quest we need more time on that one, I'm not sure about their sales, but I think Nox was a success back then too. That's just some.

I had in mind a success on a scale of games like starcraft, homm, half-life, bg... but anyway my point is you will always find crappy lousy products in all industries, and it doesn't mean "no one makes good (insert product here) anymore like they used to".

[ 08-30-2006, 04:04 PM: Message edited by: ZFR ]

[Gnarf]

You're all wrong! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

People should design games they'd like to play, just like how in every other artform, people should make something they'd like to see/read/listen/whatnot to. It's not as much about caring about your customers as it is about caring about your game.

That said, yes, the "$$$ trend" is the problem. A game won't be made unless it looks like it will sell. That might, in some cases, keep some bad games from being released, but mostly it just kills off any innovation in the industry. Innovation is risky business. Good or bad, the industry dead boring when compared to the indie scene :|

It is not the corpoate whore who decides what games are to be made. It's the gamers who decide by voting with their wallets.

No. It's the corporate whore. That's excactly what that corporate whore is doing.

Also, Crazy Frog Racer.

[Sever]

If we're going to continue to disuss $$$ like it's a real word and not one that i just substituted in out of laziness, it's high time we defined what $$$ is. It is somewhat vague after all.

Firstly, there's quick, easy $$$ which is the aim of all those companies that produce unimaginative run-of-the-mill clones. Then there's big $$$ which is the aim of the other companies who have a good product but are unwilling to devote the man-hours and moolah required to turn good games into spectacular games. The kind of games that every gamer can't ignore and wants a copy of. The kind of game that generates mega $$$ out of sales ALONE. I'll be the first to say that mega $$$ from record sales is NOT the current trend in game design. When i said $$$ is the trend, i was referring to companies who would rather utilize the many tricks of the trade off of the success of evolutionary (rather than revolutionary) games. There is no company willing to devote what it takes to turn the evolutionary into the revolutionary and snatch up the mega $$$ in the process. Why? Why bother? They're making their mega $$$ through 5 minute, $2.50 mods or ridiculous monthly subscription fees. Both of which don't require a spectacular game be produced. Just a game that leaves you wanting more.

Allow me to de-vague my quote. Profit generated by marketing tricks rather than superb gameplay mechanics is the current trend in game design.

[Imrahil]

Originally posted by Luvian: Who I'd like to see at the top of a company is someone that care about his company and it's image, has a stake in the success of his company, and plan in the long term instead of the short term. It wouldn't hurt if he respected and cared his clients either.

Take a look at The Broken Hourglass. It's got several of the big names over at Pocket Plane behind it, definitely fits in with what you describe, & is in the Baldur's Gate "style". Looks good, although I doubt we'll see anything in the very near future.

- Imrahil