NINJAS: Are thy worth it, if so, what type?

[gd2]

Hi all,
was just wondering about this a bit. In my party I'm changing 3 of my 6 chars to other classes at L10. Planning possibly for another two chars as well later. Yes, I realize now that class changing, with very few exceptions and then only if done early on, isnt really worth it. However, its my first time through so I'm patient, and so no biggie. Anyhow, I was going to change my Hobbit Rogue to a ninja. I was sorely disappointed. I know I didnt give him enough of a chance most likely. And on top of his initial poor performance, there's hardly anything for him to wear for armor. So, I instead changed him to a Samurai.

Anyhow, here are my questions about the ninja, so that next time around I can include one into the party from the start and do it properly...

1). What type of ninja is best? A faerie ninja using the CoC, or perhaps a Hobbit using martial arts? Which is more desireable?
Hmm... There is also another option that I doubt many have tried which seems intriguing: what about having a ninja train in the polearm skill and then use a naginata type weapon, with Extended range? If there are any very good ER weaps for them it might seem feasable I guess. So, which is the best type to go with from your experience?

2). Do ninjas eventually start gaining in natural AC as they rise in levels, as was the case in earlier Wiz's? I imagine they must, otherwise their AC would stay pathetically low in comparison to the rest of the party. If their AC doesnt raise naturally, is there armor that can help? Or, OTOH, even if they do rise in AC naturally as they rise in levels, is there armor they can equip that'd give them better protection just the same? If so, where? I've found some ninja armor here and there, but even what I found was pretty bad compared to even the worst of armors in the game. There must be some nice ninja armors somkewhere, no?

3). Is a purely shuriken/thrown weapon ninja a good idea? There's info in the manual that talks of "thrown criticals" and yet almost everyone I';ve heard says that their ninja has never had any thrown crits, despite how many pts they pump into dex or what have you. Is it just a mmatter of reaching a high enough level for them to start battling effectively at long, or short, range? Do they ever truly start to benefit and display a lot of results from critical hits?

4). Between Martial Arts and other weapons skills, which is ultimately the most effective for the ninja overall? If not Martial Arts, what weapons skills would you recommend to master? Which choice results in the most effective fighter?

Any guidance with these questions would be really appreciated. Really want to include a ninja in the next party but just want to make sure to know what am doing. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Case00]

I loved my ninja. I went for the strait unarmed approach, by the end of the game i was getting well over 10 attacks around. The damage was a little weak, but pumping up his Str can make a big difference on that issue. If you don't like unarmed, there are a few pretty nice daggers that can increase his chance for an instant kill. I'm not fond of faerie ninjas, but if you go that route, you'll get access to one of the best weapons of the game.
The throwing criticals are dependent on Critical strike skill, and the ranged combat skill (like the Ranger). He was the only one in my group that I could trust to toss around Cherry Bombs and the like.

[Virgil]

The way to get a natural AC increase is to raise the Stealth skill. This will go up slowly on its own, but it's worth pumping some points into it. It gives about .4 AC per points.

[Lumieres]

My party:

Human Ninja
Mook Ranger
Human Monk
Hobbit Bard
Elf Bishop
Faerie Mage
+ Vi and Myles currently

My Ninja is way cool and a whole lot of fun.... but then we are all a fun bunch (LOL).

Someone, somewhere (I can't remember which board, so sorry!) posted some very interesting info on Ninjas. Critical Strike is NOT the governing skill for Instant Kills in Ninjas... it is Dual Weapons. The person who posted this bit of info had hex edited the file and several other people did the same and agreed.... The Dual Weapons stat controls the Ninja's ability to 'kill instantly' . I don't put points in Critical Strike (it rises quickly on its own), but I put 3 points in Dual Weapons and in Stealth on every level-up---at least I used to when they were below 75 . My Ninja does indeed kill instantly and on a fairly regular basis. She is a level 15 or 16 now.... gee, maybe even 17 now (my brain has left the building)??? If you put shurikens, darts, etc. into both hands and let her/him have at it, she/he will gain even more points in Dual Weapons. BTW, my Ninja uses a sling and rocks when she isn't throwing the other stuff.... and she causes enormous damage with them (the monk does even more damage with rocks ). Sometimes I have her fight bare-handed (Martial Arts) and she is doing quite well. Not as good as the monk, of course, but still kicking butt. Tried swords but didn't like it... that's just me [img]smile.gif[/img] .

Another tip which has seemed to work well is to put your points into Dexterity, Speed, and Senses. Occasionally I put some in Strength... we couldn't carry all the loot we found . Speed appears to feed into Stealth which feeds into AC. I have yet to find any other armor for her or my monk and neither one needs it.

I guess it all depends on your adventuring style... my party suits me, but others would probably hate it . Remember, Your Mileage May Vary........ lol.

Good Luck!

[madmarcos]

although she is lvl 9 in a lvl 12 party (i added her late), the faerie ninja with the cane of corpus is working out very well. if she doesnt poison or paralyze it, she insta-kills it. currently, her stealth is too low but the bishop slaps a maxxed guardian angel on her first round and she can last through most fights.

[MaskedFrog]

I like my ninja. I use him with martial arts and dual throwing weapons as a backup. I do not get as many instant kills as I would like but that is probably due to my not pumping senses since my ranger with 100 senses is getting criticals a lot.

As to your specific questions,

1. The best ninja is whatever you find the most fun. Personally I would not like a faerie ninja no matter how powerful the CoC is. My ninja is a Felpur with almost maxed speed at lvl 11.

2. Ninjas AC rise with both Speed and Stealth. You can also get more AC by maxing Dexterity to get Reflexation. A ninja with the appropriate cloak, amulet, and rings can have a great AC despite the crappy armor.

3. I started out making a purely throwing ninja but by the time I hit Arnika and realized the amazing lack of thrown weapons I had to scrap that Idea. Right now I use both throwing and martial arts and it was working out great.

4. The most effective skill for the ninja is martial arts. You can get more attacks per round which equates to a better chance for an instant kill. The only reason to play a ninja is for the instant kills as far as I am concerned. If I want raw damage I would have to go with a fighter or monk.

Hope this helps.

[gd2]

Thanks lots for the insights. Masked Frog I always felt pretty much the same about faierie ninjas, didnt really like the idea much, despite the CoC, though I think they're still worth giving a try, esp if they are able to use that special armor that Antone makes for faeries, might be worth a try for the fun of it. The main thing I dont like about them is they can only bear half the carrying weight compared to other chars. Maybe they make up for it somehow though. Seems martial arts is likely what ninjas are best designed for and look forward to making one which masters that skill to begin with on the next game. Am also going to create a monk for the next game as well.

[MornD]

Correct me if I am wrong, the Antone farie armour cannot be used by farie ninjas and monks.

[Vaylord]

You are not wrong. The zynaryx plate can only be used by faeries and by all classes except monks and ninjas.

[gd2]

Than that's one less incentive for them. Thanks for sharing the info on that. I wanst really very crazy about trying a F-Ninja anyhow. Seems apparent now that a ninja's potential is likely maximized through Martial arts and a normal sized char, eg a hobbit.