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Old 11-27-2004, 02:19 AM   #41
Yorick
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I hope people read Memnoch's before responding further.
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Old 11-27-2004, 02:19 AM   #42
Yorick
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I hope people read Memnoch's post before responding further.
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Old 11-27-2004, 12:15 PM   #43
Stratos
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*Cough*Doublepost*Cough*

As for knights trained to fight with armour, I would guess that knights trained in padded armour and the like, NOT full combat outfit, so I suppose they would still be well versed in fighting light.

[ 11-27-2004, 11:16 AM: Message edited by: Stratos ]
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Old 11-27-2004, 04:21 PM   #44
Calaethis Dragonsbane
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Quote:
Originally posted by Yorick:
I hope people read Memnoch's before responding further.
Yes, I read it. My opinion still stands as far as I'm concerned [img]tongue.gif[/img]
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Old 12-01-2004, 11:54 AM   #45
Dron_Cah
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Almost a bit of necromancy, but props on the article, Memmy! [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] I especially enjoyed this bit:
"Sadly, it's all too common to encounter individuals who feel appreciation of one culture's fighting arts must to come at denigration of another. Such adolescent reactions are a reflection of the reader's insecurity and immaturity."

But this is definitely the best:
samurai "would have just used their Ki"

And maybe Yorick just posted it twice to emphasize the importance of it! [img]tongue.gif[/img]
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Old 12-01-2004, 01:48 PM   #46
Elif Godson
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What century knights and samurai are we talking? I would put my money on the samurai any day for any time personally. If you are talking real katana's, not the crap that is mass produced today, the katana is far superior then the common long sword. The japanese had a finese with metalurgy that most europeans did not. Toledo's and damascus is on par, but there really werent that many to go around in the dark ages of europe in comparison to those of japan. Most Knights "martial" experience consisted of padded training with shield and sword with dummies and usually one to tow partners. As for the samurai, multiple attackers at once usually with a bokken, sometimes without. Open hand was usually the epitome of there training first and foremost, they learned the weapon afterwards. If you add in platemail or chain, yes it could absorb blows well, and plate was vulnrable to crushing type weapons more then blades, but that is why thrustering type weapons such as the rapier or for that matter you could use the wakazashi or tanto to get where you needed. The first katanas were made originally heavier at the tip, for going through scaled armor and penetrating the softer areas where the armor would come together, all joints were susceptable. The longsword and bastard although double edged was generally dull and made for crushing through chain links and plate and on occasion piercing. I tink if both were to meet, dsay 14 or 15th century they would be afraid of each other because they would both be forign to eachother. Japanese generally being smaller and more mobile then the taller armored briton. If you compare the saracens (turks) to what happend to europeans I think you would have a good comparison. The saracens wore some chain but mostly cloth and put a world of hurt on there armored combatants with there scimitars. okay so like I said, my money goes with the samurai, and please stop talking physics, your making y brain hurt
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Old 12-01-2004, 04:58 PM   #47
Thoran
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Quote:
Originally posted by Elif Godson:
What century knights and samurai are we talking? I would put my money on the samurai any day for any time personally. If you are talking real katana's, not the crap that is mass produced today, the katana is far superior then the common long sword. ... snip ..., your making y brain hurt
Didn't read the article Memnoch posted did ya? I thought we were past all the the katana/samurai worshipping misinformation.

Japanese metallurgy was not "more advanced" than western... they were dealing with inferior raw materials (living on an island does that) so they NEEDED to use certain processing techniques (folding for instance) to get decent swords... those techniques were all available to western swordmakers... they simply weren't necessary. That tip weighted Katana might have been adept at cutting through Japanese armor but had a higher polar moment of intertia than Western blades (which have more distal taper) so forget about any blade speed advantages for the samurai.

Anyway... I could go on but first I recommend you read the article Memnoch posted... then check the link I posted... then check this link:

http://www.thearma.org//forum/showfl...=&fpart=1&vc=1

For the most part all these guys are more knowledgeable than anyone here about the subject and they make a lot of good points on both sides of the debate.

Finally... read this thread on a fencing forum:

http://www.fencing101.com/vb/showthr...dieval+fencing

There are a couple of modern fencers on there who discuss combat between modern (western) fencers and kendo practitioners. The reach and speeed of western fencing was severely overpowering. Now this is is comparing state of the art modern competitive fencing with a classical form... hardly fair... but keep in mind that modern fencing is the direct decendant of the western martial arts tradition when you claim that the samurai was superior. Even on that forum they admit that it all comes down to the skill of the combatants, and that both eastern and western techniques have advantages and disadvantages.

There is also a report of Portugese historical documents where sailors dismantled samurai on several occasions, without suffering a loss.
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Old 12-01-2004, 05:43 PM   #48
Dron_Cah
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Ooh, ooh, I forgot this one!
"...can cut through anything as if it were a light-saber."
So, that proves it. A Jedi would take both of them apart! At the same time!! Woot!! [img]tongue.gif[/img]
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Old 12-01-2004, 05:44 PM   #49
Elif Godson
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didnt see it. no need to get in an uproar. Like I said my opinion, my bet. And yes it does result in ones skill. I have bested many with weapons and been bested, such is life yo! no sweat

[ 12-01-2004, 05:01 PM: Message edited by: Elif Godson ]
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Old 12-08-2004, 08:29 AM   #50
Tsukijama
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Goodday everybody!
I have read the article of J. Clements posted bij Memnoch. I have to agree with J. The outcome isn't determinable. Personnaly I am a samurai fan, but you can give both the knight or the samurai an advantage, too many factors determine an encounter.
Dron_Cah's comment is good to, as I also like Star Wars, a jedi would take them both apart. (lol)
Have a nice day every-one!
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