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Old 10-04-2001, 12:57 PM   #1
StarVid
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Join Date: September 23, 2001
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Ok, I haven't gotten past chapter 2-3. So please no spoilers. Also, this is probably not going to make a lot of sense unless you are familiar with PnP.

Considering that this is D&D (albeit in a cRPG), I still have a PnP minset that I can't break. In the PnP adventures, a DM was given notes in the beginning on a recommeded party construction, though generally people go with a well rounded party. Ok, so let's look at the start of BG2. You're locked in a cage with Jah, Imoen, and Minsc. And one of them comments to the extent that you have been adventuring since Baldur's Gate and blah blah blah. Which would mean that your final party must have been Imoen, Jah, Khalid, Minsc, Dynaheir, and you. For this party, in order to have a well rounded party, you'd have be be a cleric or if you dualed Imoen, a thief to cover her while she caught up. This doesn't make much sense because other than healing (which Jah could have done), and animated dead and silence, a cleric was pretty much useles for BG1, and as for playing a thief, the only use to this would be you have two people that could backstab mages, rather than just one.

With regards to plot significance, the important people are Jah, Imoen, and Minsc (though he didn't play a big part in BG2 so I think the only reason they brought him back was because he was so popular). However, it makes sense because Jah is gorion's old friend and Imoen is your old friend so they fit into the storyline, a lot of other NPCs didn't fit into the storyline as they were just people you met along the way. So if you have them, then you can fit three other people in as NPCs (two when you get Imoen back). As far as storyline goes, Yoshimo makes sense, as you meet him in the dungeon, and his connection with the shadow thieves ties into whatever's going on with Irenicus. As for the other two, considering you're dealing with Vampires, and a mage, Anomen and Keldorn make the most sense.

Putting this all together, the point I'm trying to get at is to figure out what your character (your PC) should be in order to fit into this storyline and make a well-rounded party. I do have some ideas, but they don't fully work.

First of all, there are no decent straight mages (that can be your primary) in BG1 or BG2. The only exception might be Nalia (you can easily max her out under the cap), but she's not too essential to the plot line (you do that one quest of cleaning her house) and then she just sits on the backburner the rest of the game, so I excluded her. Therefore, I'm dualing a character to a mage for BG2

Some people say Imoen is a passable thief in BG2, but a lot of people disagree and think she should have been dualed later. Therefore I would say that one should have been a thief in BG1 and then dual to a mage in BG2 at level 10. You get some nice skills and while you catch up, you have yoshimo. But this would involve having two thieves for BG1, which is kind of overkill, and there would have been no point to dualing her to a mage for BG2.

The other option is to play a cleric in BG1, and dual to a mage (about level 11) in BG2. You can still be a full mage, have good hps, and can be a good supporting cleric for Anomen. This doesn't really work because clerics get shafted in BG1. There are nowhere's near as many priest spells as mage spells in BG1 and they just wouldn't be fun to play. They'd sit in back, heal people and once in a while animate some dead or cast silence. I certainly wouldn't send the main PC as a cleric into the front lines of a battle.

I know, some people might think, well, you can play anything, that's why all the classes are open to you. And while technically you can, with regards to storyline, you really can't. (i.e. there's no point to being a druid with Jah along, that's for sure).

In short, I believe that there's a specific storyline, and I'm just trying to figure out what part the PC is to play.

Either that or I'm crazy and don't know what I'm talking about.
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Old 10-04-2001, 01:35 PM   #2
Fuzzy Animal
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Join Date: October 2, 2001
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You really can play any character you want,
and it will all make sense in the end. You
just start out with some familiar faces from
BG1 to help you out of the dungeon but after
that you can take or leave any npcs you come
across.
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Old 10-04-2001, 03:26 PM   #3
Darkman
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Well I'm no expert on the BG2 storyline, as I haven't played past Ch 2 yet... but I would imagine the makers of BG1/2 designed the game so that you could use any class as the PC and the story would still make sense and the game still be relatively balanced. There's pleanty of various NPC's you can have in your party, and unfortunately I would like to see a little more variety (2 thief/mages bah), but still you have alot of options. Yes there are a few NPCs that are more crucial to the storyline than others, but that doesn't mean you have to use them for the entire game. It's just like in other cRPG's like Ultima. You start with some familiar faces in your party but you don't have to use all of them or even any of them to finish the game. Perhaps this is different from PnP?

As for the PC in BG1, I used a Cleric and had alot of fun. He was a tank though, with 18 str and dex, used a hammer +2 and kicked some butt. Incidentally, I used the "default" party that the game seemed designed for consisting of me, Imoen, Jaheira, Khalid, Minsc, and Dyanara. Between me and Jaheira we had tons of healing and clerical/druid spells. Khalid and Minsc kicked butt up front, I acted as a middle line fighter, and the three ladies stayed back and fired off missiles and spells. It worked really well, but I bet a PC of any class would have fit in just fine. Two thieves might be over-kill, but one could specialize in stealth and backstabbing while the other does traps and locks. Two mages would be very cool to have. You'd never have to pay to ID, and you'd have pleanty of spells to go around. Two clerics (which is basically what I had) was cool because we had more than enough healing powers which allowed me and Jaheira to cast some cleric/druid spells that we ordinarily wouldn't have used. Another fighter would have been cool too, just means more butt kicking up front. Same with having another archer, just more butt kicking from the rear. Basically, my point is that the core party of Jah, Khal, Minsc, Imoen, and Dyna, was very balanced allowing the PC to choose whatever role he wanted. And if you don't like that core party, there are a bevy of other NPC's just waiting to join up. The game was designed to be flexible so that the PC could beat the game using any class and practically whatever party members too.
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Old 10-04-2001, 04:14 PM   #4
StarVid
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Join Date: September 23, 2001
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Yeah, it is flexible, but that's not necessarily a good thing. At least not for the storyline. Sure there are other PCs that you could pick up, but that doesn't necessarily fit into the plot. Other than Imoen, Khalid, and Jahiera, all the other NPCs had no plot significance in BG1. In BG2, the same goes for most of the NPCs. In fact, Keldorn and Anomen don't really have any plot significance. Considering what I heard of things to come, the party with the most significance to the story would be Jah, Minsc, Imoen/Yoshimo and Vic (for Underdark later though she can't cast some of the really good healing spells and I wouldn't send her into battle for spells like Harm). From a storyline perspective, until you get Imoen back, you don't have a decent mage, and when you do get her back you're kind of screwed because she'll be at such a low level. This is why I think that the PC is geared towards being a mage in BG2. Furthermore, especially compared to BG1, the mage has (IMO) been more worked with than any of the other class. There are a -lot- more new spells for the mage, and a lot of nice equipment. And they also improved the cleric class quite significantly (which I'll mention later). As for BG1, you had a poor selection of clerics. You had the evil Vic, the Neutral Branwen (and Quayle later with his 13 Wisdom) and the Good Yeslick, none of which were plot essential. Being that the game was designed for a good party (it seems like everything you did raised your rep, I had a rep of 20 by the end of the mines), and the only good cleric didn't come along until over halfway through the game, coupled with the fact that out of all the Tomes and Manuals, there were 2 (well 3, but one is needed for a quest) Tomes of Wisdom, along with a really nice hammer early in the game (the one from Basillus). It would seem that a cleric is better choice for BG1.

In short, that is why I think (according to keeping a fluid storyline) the PC is geared towards being a cleric in BG1, and with the improvements done to the cleric class, as well as the improvements to the mage class, it's why the PC is geared towards dualing to a mage in BG2. Originally I thought it would be a dual thief/mage because imoen is a bit lacking in the thief skills, but really, I only need her to disarm traps. I can cast find traps/invisible (as a cleric mage) to scope out a level and then she can turn invisible and follow me to disarm them.

Maybe I'm reading too much into this, but considering that I just moved here, have no cable yet, and am still waiting for the rest of my stuff to arrive so I can have the box with BG2, along with all my other good stuff, I think this is a good use of my time.
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Old 10-04-2001, 04:23 PM   #5
Darkman
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Yes, I think you're reading way too much into this!

If you're bored waiting for BG2 to arrive, you could always play through BG1 picking up party members that you've never used before and using a class that you haven't tried before. A Druid or Bard would make for an interesting game..
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Old 10-04-2001, 06:02 PM   #6
StarVid
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Join Date: September 23, 2001
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I'm like soooooooooo bored of BG1. Compared to what's in BG2, it's so basic. Besides, Druids and Clerics get shafted on their spell selection, and they spells to do have aren't all that great. I like the mages and what they have, though I've played them to death. The same for fighters, it doesn't get any different at higher levels, you just hit more often. Furthermore, the plot is a -lot- deeper in BG2, in comparison, BG1 is mind numbing...

I shouldn't have moved...
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Old 10-05-2001, 07:28 AM   #7
Zbyszek
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Another point of view on your party.
Most people tend to do many side quests. Some NPC have really short quests: Korgan, Keldorn, Aerie, or none: Minsc, Viconia (I am not taking romance into account). Some NPC have very time consuming quests, or quests that requires a lot of waiting (in the middle you can do short quests). I mean Jaheira Harpers quest, also Jans or Anomen quest do not happen when you let them join you. I have heard that Mazzy got her quest after a lot of time and since you can not take her at the beginning you will finish it late.
So IMHO: Jaheira, Anomen and Jan have been designed to be permanant party members. Later you add Mazzy and Imoen. So you dont need to be cleric, some tank would be much better.

Hmm.. Edwins quest is also very long... but maybe he is for evil parties instead of Anomen for example.



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