09-13-2002, 08:13 AM | #21 |
Ra
Join Date: August 14, 2001
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The USA should get approval from the UN, if they are going to war with Iraq - and also convince Iraq's neighbours to accept the war, because the US (and - if UN agrees - allied) forces will need staging posts for any landbased attack. I'm no military expert, but attack though the narrow Iraqi access to the Persian Gulf will be difficult to say the least. Secondly, an invasion of Iraq will not be like the Gulf War, where the Iraqi army took to the field in open battle. I think that they will stay in the cities where they cannot easily be targeted - to maximize casualities both among the attackers and the civilian population (for PR).
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09-13-2002, 08:50 AM | #22 | |
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09-13-2002, 08:52 AM | #23 |
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I didn't get to hear Bush' speach to the UN but the synopsis I have heard was basicly, he told them either they enforce the sanctions and rules they imposed on Iraq about 10 years ago or they become irrelevant as an organization and should be disbanded. I kind of agree, the UN sits around and spouts a lot of shite, but they never follow through, or so it seems.
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09-13-2002, 08:53 AM | #24 | |||
Red Wizard of Thay
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[ 09-13-2002, 08:55 AM: Message edited by: Nachtrafe ]
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09-13-2002, 09:09 AM | #25 |
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Join Date: September 2, 2002
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The thing about 'weapons of mass destruction' is this - the reason a lot of countries keep them is to do with the balance of power, i.e. if I didn't have any and my neighbour does.....scenarios, and then you get the whole arms race.
Now, Iraq is hardly the only country with these type of weapons - the anthrax released in the USA was MADE in the USA, Britain sells arms to other countries and a large proportion of our budget is spent on defense, Israel has plenty, I'm sure Russia has some about somewhere and Pakistan and India do too, just to name a few. The USA has determined Iraq as a threat and want something visual to go with their 'War on Terror' campaign. After all, why now? Hasn't this issue been going on for years? Also, the US have already decided on war as being the only answer- most political journalists have described the diplomatic 'motions' as just that. If they want to go to war in someone else's country and displace their (dysfunctional, it's true) government, they better make sure that they have some kind of long term plan, as opposed to 'go on in, bomb them and leave them to sort it all out'. That's how the Taliban got into power after America trained people to get rid of the Russian presence, and we all saw how well THAT worked out.... The situation in the Middle East is already at a critical point. Taking another war into the region as opposed to actually SOLVING the problems would be an act of stupidity, and poorly thought out. The people have incredibly high levels of leukaemia and other such diseases, deformed babies and serious problems from the Gulf War, even the soldiers suffered and they were much better protected. The bottom line is this, if other alternatives have been tried (and demanding for an inspection while never having been inspected yourself is hardly what I'd call the diplomatic approach), there is some proof about the need to act NOW and there is consideration to the country afterwards and the high price of innocent lives - surely the world will agree. If the war begins without the UN's support, it will be for all the wrong reasons - a personal vendetta instead of focusing on the Iraqi people who are surely the most at risk, as well as people on other shores. What right do the USA and the UK have to start an action that affects the world and without consulting the people they are supposed to be representing? I know from some polls I've heard that the majority of us Brits don't want this to happen and by Tony Blair encouraging it, he is not representing the voting public who'll be paying for this war, and who will have it on their collective conscious. Sorry that went on a bit, but we all know that this war is not just about the accumulation of weapons, but all kinds of political issues from oil to power. In this case, the ends do not justify the means.
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09-13-2002, 09:39 AM | #26 | |
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1.)Preferably, the citizens of the country. Unfortunately, not everyone enjoys Democracy. 2.)Those who are effected/threatened by the potential danger. 3.)No one likes a bully, but isn't that exactly what Saddam is? The United Nations was formed to help keep the peace and hold nations accountable for their actions. The idea is to keep nations from threatening one another. Who are they bullying? Didn't Iraq join the UN knowing the rules? Did they agree to inspections to end the Gulf War? 4.)You should check again. None of his neighbors like Saddam because he is unstable and dangerous. I mean, he did use chemical weapons against Iran and HIS OWN citizens. This is not the kind of guy you want for a neighbor. His neighbors just don't like the idea of the US acting unilaterally in the region. 5.)I haven't heard anyone "brand" those who dislike Bush as terrorists. Americans who like Bush maybe offended, but please don't think them so stupid. If they made that leap of logic, then all Democrates would be terrorist too. 6.)Assasination may or may not be the way to handle this situation, but considering Saddam tried to have both the Israeli PM and the US President assassinated in the early 90's, I tend to lean towards, "what goes around, comes around."
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09-13-2002, 10:16 AM | #27 | |
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[ 09-13-2002, 10:19 AM: Message edited by: MagiK ] |
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09-13-2002, 11:13 PM | #28 | |
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I agree that what ever we do we do it right, to the best of our abillities. Human lives hang in the balance
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09-14-2002, 05:57 AM | #29 |
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I disagree John. Our leaders are elected to serve us. They need to do what we, the people who live in each state, want or they should be replaced. Frankly, I'm pretty happy with the record of Leahy, Jeffords, and Sanders of Vermont and I will vote to have them as my Senators and Congressman again.
The President may be there to lead, but he must also do what the people want, Republican, Democrat, or Independant. He started at close to 90% approval and a year later he is at 60% (of those polled, of course...nobody asked me ). That's why this is a Democratic Government. The path he chose smacks of manipulation and a go it alone mentality that is a trademark of Bush's style. He seems to say "This is what needs to be done. Now I want all you people to work with me to reach this goal, but don't expect me to work with you. If you can't compromise to what I want, don't expect me to meet you halfway." He does this with Congress and with the rest of the world at large. I can't decide if he wants Free Trade or Protectionism. I don't want a Cowboy...I want a President, I want a President who talks smarter than me. I don't want to have a child who won't play nice with the other kids in the sandbox, I don't want a spoiled brat or a bully. Mark |
09-14-2002, 09:23 AM | #30 |
Thoth - Egyptian God of Wisdom
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You guys know what a war is? It's murder, it's sheer bloody murder. There are no 'right' or 'just' forces at play here. Plenty of Iraqi civilians are going to die pretty soon, it has pretty much already been decided. Basically, I and my country have more in common with the USA than Iraq so if innocents are gonna be butchered to fulfill political agendas then I'd prefer them to be Iraqi than American. It's more profitable to serve the USA.
To be honest I'm getting pretty sick and f**king tired of people trying to moralize this perpetual slaughter. Better to just kill and be done with it, then enjoy the benefits of conquest (primarily: a nice supply of CHEAP OIL!) than obsess over this pathetic judeo/christian/americana moralization. There's just been too much stock put in empty, flowery ideology in this past century, utter horseshit! Kill for profit, territory and resources and to hell with empty moralizing. And you can inscribe that on my tombstone after I've been killed by a hostile invading force.
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