What's your thought about the Dixie Chicks comments?

[Attalus]

They have freedom of speech. We have freedom not to buy their CD's. All even.

[Aelia Jusa]

Originally posted by TheCrimsomBlade: The Dixie Chicks are Stupid country girls that only know one thing and that is singing.

I think if we resort to calling people stupid when they have an opinion different to our own, we're really doing ourselves a disservice, not them - we can't argue the point so just say well they're just stupid, that's why they think that way. What does their being country girls have to do with it by the way? Are only city people smart enough to grasp all the tricky issues? Also find the notion that all they know is singing rather puzzling as well. Obviously you feel you know more than whatever your profession involves since you're giving your opinion. Why then would singers have no other knowledge or capacity to understand things except how to sing?

Regarding boycotts. I accept that it is our right to not buy people's products if they stand for positions we disagree with, as it is their right to uphold those positions. But I think the practice of doing so DOES in a way damage the right to free speech, because by saying 'say what you want, but I will try to ruin your livelihood if you do so' is discouraging people from expressing their opinions. It's not really that different to if someone worked in an office and was told that they were free to express their anti-war opinions in the cafeteria if they wanted, but expect a salary cut if they did. There are no absolutes in this issue, so you can't without extreme arrogance claim that one position is totally right and the opposite is totally wrong - so then to discourage opinion from all spectrums is foolish at best. People often say, well we don't have the same opportunity to express ourselves as celebrities do, but it's not like the other side isn't getting their point across! The government, the friendly media, and quite a number of celebrities are all getting ample air time to express the opinions that pro-war people espouse.

[Attalus]

Yep, and my right to express my opinion about the face of that big guy across the bar is curtailed by the fact that he'll break my nose if I tell him that I think he is ugly. Singers are in the business of communicating feelings to their audience. To paraphrase Arthur Miller, to be a good singer, you have to get them to like you; to be a great singer, you have to get them to love you. Natalie Maines disrupted that relationship to the point that many of her/their former fans do not want to listen to her any more. Not only do they not want to hear her, they want people who believe as they to know of their outrage. That is what boycotts are all about. We don't really care whether she says anything else, we just don't want to hear her, period.

[NiceWorg]

Originally posted by Aelia Jusa: quote: Originally posted by TheCrimsomBlade: The Dixie Chicks are Stupid country girls that only know one thing and that is singing.

I think if we resort to calling people stupid when they have an opinion different to our own, we're really doing ourselves a disservice, not them - we can't argue the point so just say well they're just stupid, that's why they think that way. What does their being country girls have to do with it by the way? Are only city people smart enough to grasp all the tricky issues? Also find the notion that all they know is singing rather puzzling as well. Obviously you feel you know more than whatever your profession involves since you're giving your opinion. Why then would singers have no other knowledge or capacity to understand things except how to sing?
[/QUOTE]I second this with heavy underlining. Ironworks would be even more paradiseISH if this would be reality.

[Kakero]

My thoughts? Dixie Chicks is entitled to her comments, but she shouldn't say it out in public where the whole world can hear and see what she is saying. What will other people from other nation think? She of course should be willing to accept people's retribution towards her comments. I think this is call " you give you take ".

The fans that smashed her CDs and albums are also entitled to their action, as long as they do it within the legal law ( they bought the thing first so it's become their property ). but then again to me it's a waste of money. those things cost money to buy no?

She is very lucky that she comes from US, the land of free. Some country might jail one for commenting about their leader.

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Originally posted by Aelia Jusa: I think if we resort to calling people stupid when they have an opinion different to our own, we're really doing ourselves a disservice, not them - we can't argue the point so just say well they're just stupid, that's why they think that way. What does their being country girls have to do with it by the way? Are only city people smart enough to grasp all the tricky issues? Also find the notion that all they know is singing rather puzzling as well. Obviously you feel you know more than whatever your profession involves since you're giving your opinion. Why then would singers have no other knowledge or capacity to understand things except how to sing?

Well in this case, Aelia, the accusation isn't completely un-justified. Not that Natalie Maines or the other two really are stupid...but their political knowledge is practically non-existent. Diane Sawyer did a special the other night in which she interviewed the Dixie Chicks about the controversy. Natalie Maines emphasized again that she was sincerely sorry for the way she worded her statement..but she was NOT sorry for having questions about the war and President Bush. That is a fair statement and it IS her Constitutional right to do exactly that. So Diane Sawyer asked her exactly what kind of questions she had regarding the war. Maines couldn't name a single issue that she really had questions about...she just had "questions about the whole thing". When Diane pressed her about her views, she couldn't back them up with any substance.

If Natalie Maines tried to debate here on Ironworks, she would be eaten alive. The bottom line is that she made an ill-advised comment in the heat of the moment and she simply can't say "Hey, I was wrong to do that" and let it go. She and her two colleagues are perpetuating the controversy by portraying themselves as victims rather than letting the issue die. Thier feelings are hurt because of they didn't expect such a HUGE backlash from their fans (which was just naive' on their part) so they feel they have to "fight back" and defend themselves. Hey...nobody has told them they can't express their opinions..but the fans have the same right to voice their approval (or lack of it) over those opinions.

Originally posted by Aelia Jusa: Regarding boycotts. I accept that it is our right to not buy people's products if they stand for positions we disagree with, as it is their right to uphold those positions. But I think the practice of doing so DOES in a way damage the right to free speech, because by saying 'say what you want, but I will try to ruin your livelihood if you do so' is discouraging people from expressing their opinions. It's not really that different to if someone worked in an office and was told that they were free to express their anti-war opinions in the cafeteria if they wanted, but expect a salary cut if they did. There are no absolutes in this issue, so you can't without extreme arrogance claim that one position is totally right and the opposite is totally wrong - so then to discourage opinion from all spectrums is foolish at best. People often say, well we don't have the same opportunity to express ourselves as celebrities do, but it's not like the other side isn't getting their point across! The government, the friendly media, and quite a number of celebrities are all getting ample air time to express the opinions that pro-war people espouse.

I disagree with boycotts infringing on the First Amendment right to Free Speech. When your livelihood depends on the general public to begin with, you need to keep in mind the views and opinions of your customers. If an entertainer doesn't do this, then it is the entertainer that is threatening thier own livelihood by alienating their audience.

Originally posted by Chewbacca: I respect the Dixie Chicks and love the bold and open statement they make with the E.W. cover. I DON'T have to respect the president, his cronies, or his policies and anyone who who says I am Un/Anti-American or a traitor because of that is dead wrong. Respect is earned in my book and he hasn't earned it for a whole variety of reasons. I have the constitutional right to petition greivances against my goverment...AKA...the president.... with no stipulation of limitation. I am ashamed and embarrassed of the divisive militarism and duplicity around the real reasons for rushing to war, not to mention the danger posed to the enviroment, no matter how many Iraqi's end up liberated. Boycott me if you wish. It wont stop me from thinking or make me apoligize. [img]tongue.gif[/img] I certainly will boycott voting for Bush this coming election.

The Dixie Chicks have the right to their opinion, but if they make it public, they have to accept the consequences...choosing to voice your views means you will accept the consequences. I don't really respect the Dixie chicks...what have they ever done to earn respect? They may or nmay not be good musicians, but being an entertainer is hardly proof of an elevated level of consciousness or heightend intellect.

As for your right about opposing the administration you can do that too, it is your right...up untill you make any outward direct threat to the health or well being of said officials, then you become guilty of breaking several federal laws [img]smile.gif[/img] How you choose to exercise your rights will carry consquences...make sure you can live with the consequences before making a choice [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 04-26-2003, 11:43 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[Chewbacca]

Originally posted by MagiK: quote: Originally posted by Chewbacca: I respect the Dixie Chicks and love the bold and open statement they make with the E.W. cover. I DON'T have to respect the president, his cronies, or his policies and anyone who who says I am Un/Anti-American or a traitor because of that is dead wrong. Respect is earned in my book and he hasn't earned it for a whole variety of reasons. I have the constitutional right to petition greivances against my goverment...AKA...the president.... with no stipulation of limitation. I am ashamed and embarrassed of the divisive militarism and duplicity around the real reasons for rushing to war, not to mention the danger posed to the enviroment, no matter how many Iraqi's end up liberated. Boycott me if you wish. It wont stop me from thinking or make me apoligize. [img]tongue.gif[/img] I certainly will boycott voting for Bush this coming election.

The Dixie Chicks have the right to their opinion, but if they make it public, they have to accept the consequences...choosing to voice your views means you will accept the consequences. I don't really respect the Dixie chicks...what have they ever done to earn respect? They may or nmay not be good musicians, but being an entertainer is hardly proof of an elevated level of consciousness or heightend intellect.

As for your right about opposing the administration you can do that too, it is your right...up untill you make any outward direct threat to the health or well being of said officials, then you become guilty of breaking several federal laws [img]smile.gif[/img] How you choose to exercise your rights will carry consquences...make sure you can live with the consequences before making a choice [img]smile.gif[/img] [/QUOTE]The point of this reply eludes me. What's this lecture of consequence and all that? If your are suggesting I would advocate violence agianst an elected official because I support free-speech, then you must have had nothing better to do. Of course there is consequence for every action. What a strange reply. Well from the smilieys I will hope your being sarcastic? [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 04-27-2003, 12:14 AM: Message edited by: Chewbacca ]

[Blind_Prophet]

They should have the right to there opinion. But i support a ban on there music infact i would support a ban on all counrty music [img]tongue.gif[/img] . Anyway they should have the right to say whatever they want, just like any other person. but being famous doesn't allow them to live like normal citizens so they paid the price for there comments.

[Night Stalker]

Originally posted by Chewbacca: I do wonder if it were 1998 and one of the Dixie Chicks said they were ashamed of the president if they would have been blacklisted and ridiculed. Alot of the people critisizing the D.C. now were probably on the Clinton bashing wagon back then. I smell a double standard... [img]graemlins/1ponder.gif[/img]

I'll bite.

What double standard do you smell? How was the "Clinton bashing" that was done from the "right" any different than the "Bush bashing" done now by the "left"? How does people expressing opinions constitute a double standard? As a number of people on this thread already pointed out, as entertainers, they live and die by the opinions of their public. They chose a public forum to express a view that offended a large part of their public. Their public has responded by no longer supporting them. They are now crying victem. They would be better served by letting the controversy die, because the American attention span is shorter than a sound byte.

Now to personalize things a little, I did support the impeachment of Clinton. Because he (ab)used the power and resources of the Gov to disrupt a private civil case brought against himself. I supported this military action in Iraq, because they failed to keep their half of a cease fire (not a peace treaty).

Now if things develop they way they are looking, I think there may be possible impeachment grounds for Cheyney - at the very least, a serious conflict of intrest. Also the way some members of the cabinet, are acting, I think they are trying to seriously undermine the Constitution (Patriot Act).

My view on the Chicks - they have every right to their opinion. I disagree with their using an entertainment venue to express it, as people didn't pay for their concert to hear their political views, but they are free to express them. They just need to realize that not everyone is going to agree with and accept that opinion, and if they are worried about record sales, maybe they should restrict their opinions to the voting booth - where they still have their say but are not under the spot light.

I ask again, what hypocracy do you smell?