Moridin

[Lillie]

Hmmm, brain benders there...

Does the therapist have any comments/advice on your wife's perfectionism?

I'm a reformed perfectionist myself In my own case, I found my perfectionism to be a very self-centered view of life (born out of deep insecurities/conflicts in childhood - I learned very early to look out for myself first, no one else would bother). While this coping mechanism worked well for a child, it didn't fit with the adult world, obviously. I tried to cut myself some slack, since I was even more demanding of myself than I was of others (and I was pretty damn demanding of others). I'm sure it didn't help my first marriage at all

It actually *still* takes a conscious effort on my part to not be such a control freak, and learn to be easier on myself and others. The rewards have been worth it, I'm just still dissapointed in myself for how clueless I am at times on the issue.

[Moridin]

Lillie--

That is how my wife is. It is not only perfection in major issues (school, diet, marriage) but in everything. She has to pay bills ONTIME, not one day late. She has to have her car spotless at all times.

The therapist told her that she has to stop trying to be perfect. She has to realize that perfection is an unattainable goal and that she is going to drive herself nuts trying to achieve it. I don't know if anything the therapist said stuck with her, but I guess I will see in the coming months.

Can I ask, with your first marriage, how many 'issues' were there?
It seems that we have a few major issues but many small ones also.
Her belief that things need to be perfect. That she doesn't need to work at a relationship. Her fear of the unknown, not knowing if she would be better off alone or with someone else (which the therapist said explains in part the affair).
My belief of being inferior. My belief that there is a need for sacrafice to make it work.

It is so damn confusing! I really don't know how things will turn out. I keep telling myself that I will be ok no matter what, but I know that I won't and I fear the day (if it comes) that things will be over!


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It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear ignorant,
than open it and remove all doubt!

[Reeka]

Moridin:

Hey, buddy! It sounds like you guys made some progress yesterday. I feel for you. I am married to what I like to call a "limited perfectionist." He, thankfully, does not try to impose his perfectionistic tendencies on others--only himself. His perfectionism manifests itself in an "all or nothing attitude." If he can't do something "perfectly," he doesn't want to do it at all. Can we see how this could create problems? He has learned, over the years, everything doesn't have to be perfect. He has had to learn that excellent, good, and in some cases just barely there is sufficient. I know alot of it goes back to his parents. . . he was never good enough for them. With him, alot of it was realizing that he was that way. I guess you would call it "self realization." I guess the reason you don't get to do the "brain thing" for three weeks is the spring break thing?

Be sure you check in with us later. Best wishes.

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Reeka--The Hand of Death

[Melusine]

Moridin, I just discovered this thread (I hardly visit the board for more than a couple of minutes these days) and I had been wondering how things were between you and your wife since the last topic on the old Board. I cannot add anything to the excellent advices that Reeka, JJ and Bilqis gave you nor can I listen to you as well as they do, but I just want to let you know that my thoughts are with you! I really admire the way you're dealing with this and I think you're doing great! I hope the therapy will provide some solutions for the both of you. Good luck!

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Melusine

Your voice is ambrosia

[Lillie]

Heh Moridin - well, just remember, you asked for this

/ramble on

Marriage number one had issues galore.

1) My perfectionism.

2)*HIS* perfectionism.

3) The marriage was basically a parent/child relationship (I met Dan when I was 15, and looked up to him as some sort of father figure - my real father left when I was 4). As I grew older and began to exert my authority as an adult, it made my husband uncomfortable, he liked the power structure the way it used to be. The therapist said that was the main reason my husband cheated - he wanted to find a relationship (with another troubled girl) where he could find the same balance of power that he once had over me. "Balance of power struggles" are often at the core of marriage conflicts, it seems.

4) Dan had dumped me (very harshly) when we were in high school, before he left to go to college out-of-state. He didn't find anything better out there, `cause after three years with no new girlfriend, he came back to me, pleading for another chance. I had another boyfriend by then and told Dan to take a hike, but two more years after that, he still didn't have a new girl, and he still wanted me back. Once my relationship with the other boyfriend ended, I did take Dan back. But in true perfectionist style, I never truly forgave him for making the error of dumping me in the first place. It put a distance in between us that was never truly closed - and contributed to him dumping me yet again years later.

The two most crucial concepts I've learned through all this mess are ACCEPTANCE and FORGIVENESS. People yearn to be ACCEPTED and loved for who they are, not for who they might be in time, or who you want them to become. Forgiveness is crucial because being unforgiving hurts yourself the most in the end. It puts distance in between you and those you love, and even if the relationship fails, not forgiving will make it virtually impossible for you to move forward and learn anything from that failure.

/ramble off

Sounds interesting, Moridin, I've never heard of that type of mechanical/electrically assisted therapy. The perfectionist issue can be a tough one - why don't you turn it on it's head. The flip side of perfectionism, just as any 'ism', is that it is a defense mechanism - gonna be alot of isms flying around here - When someone is demanding perfection, it is actually a two-pronged defense. First, since perfection is unattainable, failure is automatically built into that behaviour system - the need for perfection is a deep-rooted fear of success, not failure. Not getting things perfect then allows one to be unhappy, but that is a behaviour that is familiar. People mostly will stay in a familiar, uncomfortable rut littered with broken glass rather than step out into unfamiliar ground.
Second, since there are many factors that contribute to the outcome of any situation, there is plenty of blame to go around. Misery loves company, and again, (on a general basis) the person who lives with the perfectionist is a perfect target, because of course there is some type of interaction/contribution the other has made to detract from the perfectness sought. Living based on the basis of 'if only', or 'when things are finally the way they should be' is a GAURANTEE that today will never be good enough. Pretty basic, but when you are too close to something, it can be hard to see - like the story of the 5 blind men who describe an elephant by the part they happen to be able to feel.
Your feelings of not being worthy are a sort of pale reflection of the perfection denial, in reverse. If you are not 'worthy' or 'deserving' of the good things in your life, then when they do not work out, why, that is exactly as you believed they would, so you at least get the satisfaction of being right. Miserable, but right. Again, many people would rather be miserable and right than happy and proven wrong in their assumptions/beliefs. If you have expressed enough to her that you may not be deserving of her (or something in that vein), do not be suprised if she eventually starts believing it. Truth or not, information repeated enough comes to be accepted and believed as the way it is, this has been born out in research in my field of study numerous times. One of the best ways to get out of the ruts is just one day at a time. The perfectionist says that just for today, I will do my best and accept that it will not always work out the way I want/need it to. The defeatist says that for today, the good things that I have or do are not a cosmic mistake in my favor, but that which naturally belongs to me because I am not a complete mess-up all the time - (if you were, you would mess up how to breath and expire, right?) Remember the things you have accomplished, school, degrees, friends who will stand by you- those DO NOT HAPPEN BY ACCIDENT! A complete *uck-up would not have what you do, ergo, you are not one. There - I defy you to refute that It is not easy, but if you are only looking to the future and not the now, you will never figure out how to lift your footsteps from the rut. Today is the only day you or I can affect, yesterday is beyond recall, tomorrow forever out of sight. But by doing what you can today, you will make a better yesterday, and make tomorrow a possibilities rich question, instead of a fear-ridden inevitability. Good luck and keep us posted, and remember, the advice here is worth what you have paid for it .

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When given a choice, take both.

[Moridin]

Thank you Melusine How have you been feeling? My thoughts are with you also!

Reeka, thank you also! Things are going well, at least at the moment. Time, time, time that is the only thing that will tell.

Just got good news. My wife just called and said that instead of her going to a party on Saturday night, she made dinner reservations for the two of us at a very nice resteraunt in town! She thought since we will not be seeing each other for near two weeks, it was more important to spend time together rather than go to the party


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It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear ignorant,
than open it and remove all doubt!

[KDogRex]

Cool, Moridin. Glad to hear it!
JJ, Damn, that's some powerful stuff in your words...

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-Resident Corset Loosener of the OHF

[Melusine]

I hope you'll have a wonderful evening!!!!
Thanks for asking about me, I'm glad to say that I've just had a couple of reasonably good days, I was still tired but less than usual, therefore I was really optimistic and cheerful, and I spent some great time with my boyfriend going to a movie etc. The movie we went to was Hannibal btw, and I cannot but admit that I was REALLY SCARED!!!! I really think I lack the right type of nervous system for that kind of movies: I just hate the blood and wobbly parts flying around. The predecessor (Silence o/t Lambs) was more my kind of thing.
Keeping my fingers crossed for you Moridin!!!
JJ: your advice *is* helpful, or at least it would be to me. Anyway, it's heartfelt and generous, and that's what matters most.

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Melusine

Your voice is ambrosia

[Melusine]

I cannot add anything to the excellent advices that Reeka, JJ and Bilqis gave you nor can I listen to you as well as they do, but I just want to let you know that my thoughts are with you!

Sorry for not mentioning you Lillie, I knew I'd forgotten someone!

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Melusine

Your voice is ambrosia