How to properly and respectfully address a lady in (American) English ?

[Ramon de Ramon y Ramon]

Anyone who has been around here for a while will be probably aware of my silly - or at least peculiar - habit of - half-jokingly - addressing the lady members here with "ma'am".

Now when browsing through old threads I stumbled upon a post by Reeka, that I had not seen before, in which she told me that that form of address was usually only used for much older women. Well, while I think that she is at least partially incorrect with that - after all wouldn't that be the form of address used for a higher ranking female officer in the military or even a female police officer regardless of age ? - I am still interested in learning: what would be a better way to address a lady, the best English equivalent for the French "Madame" ?

Btw, I don't mind if your suggestion might be a tad oldfashioned, I actually like to be or come across as a little oldfashioned in that context/area.

Thanks in advance for your input.

And to those of you who will see this topic as a good opportunity for pulling some jokes - and there will be doubtlessly quite a few: please, feel free to do so !

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So long !

R³ - proud to be the official spokesman for the most noble Lady Bilqis, Desert Rose of Ironworks

Btw, the cow is queuing in the slaughterhouse right now !

Actually, I believe that Ma'am is a colloquial form of Madam and might be considered a bit boorish in some circles. For a while in america in the '70's, Mz.(pronounced mizz) was fashionable. Lately however, it seems to have dropped off in usage, and the older Ms. (pronounced miss) is used.
Formalisms in america are a bit hit-and-miss, I hope I've given you some good info.
Oh and for what it's worth, one of my favorite swearwords is based on Ma'am - mammyjammer. Although I'm fairly sure that one is NOT used in polite society.



[This message has been edited by Absynthe (edited 09-13-2001).]

[Diogenes Of Pumpkintown]

"Yo, Babe" works pretty well.

j/k

[MILAMBER]

It is still considered correct to say Ma'am or Madame, but when said by someone younger it bears a connotation of respect for elderly or for one in a higher station. If you say that to a woman who still views herself as young - or she is unmarried, she might say something like "I'm no ma'am yet, call me _____" However, you are always safe when you say Miss, because not only does it apply to all females, it implies youthfulness which is never a bad thing.

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"The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his."
-General George Patton (1885-1945)

Member of CLAN HADB

[DEADMAN]

personaly I still use ma'am, and it is hit or miss because some prople expect it, some dont mind, and some can't stand it. In the US, it seems largely linked to geography. I should mention, one reason I use it so much is because I was in the military.

[Larry_OHF]

Anyone that I hold in a position of respect and power gets the Ma'am title.
It is what is expected of me, and I feel good using it.
The age of the person does not matter, as most people want to be treated with respect.
Once a young lady gets going in the world, it is a feel-good statement to be called ma'am. It denotes that she is now out of child-hood stuff.
I know that being 26 yrs. old and being called sir by a 40 yr. old man feels ...good. Though I am always embarrassed by it, because just because I dress in a good suit and he is a construction worker, does not put me in any way over him. But since I like the sir title, I can only imagine that a good decent girl would love to be referred to as ma'am.


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Father of the wicked but cute child known as MaryBeth

Padre de una niña bien traviosa pero guapa
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Aisukuríimu ga tabetái desu.

[Ramon de Ramon y Ramon]

Thank you, Absynthe ! I was actually aware that "ma'am" is kind of a short form of "madam" - but I am always a little wary to use that form because of the "other" meaning of "madam", the one related to brothels.

Hm, "Mrs" doesn't sound so nice IMHO without putting also the surname - and besides, for being able to use that one also has to be aware of the marital status of the lady in question ...

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So long !

R³ - proud to be the official spokesman for the most noble Lady Bilqis, Desert Rose of Ironworks

Btw, the cow is queuing in the slaughterhouse right now !

[MILAMBER]

Originally posted by Larry_OHF: Anyone that I hold in a position of respect and power gets the Ma'am title. It is what is expected of me, and I feel good using it. The age of the person does not matter, as most people want to be treated with respect. Once a young lady gets going in the world, it is a feel-good statement to be called ma'am. It denotes that she is now out of child-hood stuff. I know that being 26 yrs. old and being called sir by a 40 yr. old man feels ...good. Though I am always embarrassed by it, because just because I dress in a good suit and he is a construction worker, does not put me in any way over him. But since I like the sir title, I can only imagine that a good decent girl would love to be referred to as ma'am.

I know what you are saying, but Sir is universal, whereas the correct salutation for a female is not. Like DEADMAN said, it might be geographical to an extent. I have been (jokingly) corrected for calling a middle aged woman ma'am.


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"The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his."
-General George Patton (1885-1945)

Member of CLAN HADB

[Ramon de Ramon y Ramon]

Thank you very much, guys ! But if I had to draw a conclusion from what you have said already now it would be that I should just keep using "ma'am". Well, why not, I kind of like it anyway.

I don't agree that "Miss" is a "one-fits-all" solution: after all if you decide to be formal you should do it right, so that it applies only to unmarried women. And besides, calling a 40 or 50- year-old unmarried lady "Miss" just would appear mightily awkward and as very outdated to me - even if she should be vain enough to feel flattered by it.

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So long !

R³ - proud to be the official spokesman for the most noble Lady Bilqis, Desert Rose of Ironworks

Btw, the cow is queuing in the slaughterhouse right now !

[Ramon de Ramon y Ramon]

Originally posted by Diogenes Of Pumpkintown: "Yo, Babe" works pretty well. j/k

Of course, this has been the most useful and most appealing suggestion up to now - by far !

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So long !

R³ - proud to be the official spokesman for the most noble Lady Bilqis, Desert Rose of Ironworks

Btw, the cow is queuing in the slaughterhouse right now !