What do I do with a bard? - Page 3

Dave G · 02-13-2006, 09:30 PM

Well Bard's probably around right for me. My parties tend to lean heavily towards magics (My first Wizardry 8 party had like 3 Bishops, a mage, a priest, and a fighter). Bards don't sound that useful for my parties of druids, mages, clerics, and a few thief combinations.

ister · 02-14-2006, 08:45 AM

I'm not so sure that's correct. Even a magic based party can take advantage of various bard songs (immunity to sound based attacks, bonuses to saving throws, regeneration and so on). And the bard is going to be many levels higher than a mage, so it is better to have a bard cast many spells than a mage. The disadvantage relative to a mage is that you get fewer spells, and you get the highest level spells later or not at all. The advantage is that many spells are more effective when cast by a bard, you can sing a variety of useful songs.

A bard may not be quite as useful in a magic based party as it is in a melee based party, but the combination of a bard and a mage is almost always superior to two mages.

Ultra Marine · 02-14-2006, 10:52 PM

It depends on experience spread and location of scrolls. In insane setting, for example, a pure mage would be able to cast lvl5 spells but won't have access to scrolls. In HoF, it would be worse I think.

I wish the bard could dual class like a ranger. Why double standards?

Aerich · 02-15-2006, 04:16 AM

Just a part of 2nd ed D&D that was carried through in IWD. As I understand it, there are two rationales for prohibiting classes from multi or dual-classing. First, like paladins and specialist mages (although in IWD specialists can dual for some reason, or multi if gnomes), some classes require an extraordinary amount of dedication and focus, so there is no time to even explore other opportunities. Second, in the case of a bard, the character has made a career out of doing a bit of everything and may be incapable of dedicating himself/herself wholeheartedly to one thing.

Admittedly, the reasons aren't entirely convincing, which is why 3rd ed (like IWD2) allows unrestricted multiclassing - which sometimes isn't too realistic either.

Klorox · 02-15-2006, 06:05 PM

Aerich: Just to clear up what you posted: In 2nd Edition AD&D, you can in fact dual class ANY class, providing you're human and have the requisite stats and alignment.

In the Bioware games, you need to have a valid multiclass option to dualclass. It's just another bug of the game.

Also, the Complete Bards Handbook introduced multiclassed bards, and I had a lot of fun with a Ranger/Bard as well as a Bard/Cleric.

02-13-2006, 09:30 PM	#21
Dave G Elite Waterdeep Guard Join Date: February 5, 2006 Location: United States Age: 39 Posts: 48	Well Bard's probably around right for me. My parties tend to lean heavily towards magics (My first Wizardry 8 party had like 3 Bishops, a mage, a priest, and a fighter). Bards don't sound that useful for my parties of druids, mages, clerics, and a few thief combinations. __________________ I\'ve never been wrong about anything I\'ve ever said ever in the history of things I\'ve said. It\'s more likely that your \"facts\" are wrong than that I am wrong.

02-14-2006, 08:45 AM	#22
ister Drow Warrior Join Date: January 12, 2005 Location: usa Age: 56 Posts: 291	I'm not so sure that's correct. Even a magic based party can take advantage of various bard songs (immunity to sound based attacks, bonuses to saving throws, regeneration and so on). And the bard is going to be many levels higher than a mage, so it is better to have a bard cast many spells than a mage. The disadvantage relative to a mage is that you get fewer spells, and you get the highest level spells later or not at all. The advantage is that many spells are more effective when cast by a bard, you can sing a variety of useful songs. A bard may not be quite as useful in a magic based party as it is in a melee based party, but the combination of a bard and a mage is almost always superior to two mages. __________________ \" Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, in order to assure the survival and the success of liberty.\"<br />JFK

02-15-2006, 04:16 AM	#24
Aerich Lord Ao Join Date: May 27, 2004 Location: Canada Age: 42 Posts: 2,061	Just a part of 2nd ed D&D that was carried through in IWD. As I understand it, there are two rationales for prohibiting classes from multi or dual-classing. First, like paladins and specialist mages (although in IWD specialists can dual for some reason, or multi if gnomes), some classes require an extraordinary amount of dedication and focus, so there is no time to even explore other opportunities. Second, in the case of a bard, the character has made a career out of doing a bit of everything and may be incapable of dedicating himself/herself wholeheartedly to one thing. Admittedly, the reasons aren't entirely convincing, which is why 3rd ed (like IWD2) allows unrestricted multiclassing - which sometimes isn't too realistic either. __________________ Where there is a great deal of free speech, there is always a certain amount of foolish speech. - Winston S. Churchill

02-15-2006, 06:05 PM	#25
Klorox Symbol of Cyric Join Date: August 21, 2004 Location: USA Age: 48 Posts: 1,168	Aerich: Just to clear up what you posted: In 2nd Edition AD&D, you can in fact dual class ANY class, providing you're human and have the requisite stats and alignment. In the Bioware games, you need to have a valid multiclass option to dualclass. It's just another bug of the game. Also, the Complete Bards Handbook introduced multiclassed bards, and I had a lot of fun with a Ranger/Bard as well as a Bard/Cleric. __________________ Baruk Khazad! Khazad ai-mênu! "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."-- Edmund Burke

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02-14-2006, 10:52 PM	#23
Ultra Marine The Magister Join Date: December 27, 2005 Location: Australia Age: 52 Posts: 131	It depends on experience spread and location of scrolls. In insane setting, for example, a pure mage would be able to cast lvl5 spells but won't have access to scrolls. In HoF, it would be worse I think. I wish the bard could dual class like a ranger. Why double standards?

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