Warning.

By telling us to sleep, how many of us would actually listen to that inspired command, anyway...?
I would still be as sleepy as I am ri'''''ght..n.....zzzzzzz

[Memnoch]

I thought that the whole thing with Yoshimo was a pretty good plot twist anyway, and opened the way for you to rescue Imoen. Sure, she sucks compared to Yoshimo and I can understand people who have developed an NPC and picked up experience being a little pissed off. But I don't think it made the game any worse.

By the way, you can't backstab with the Sword of Chaos. It's a two handed sword and you can only backstab with swords that thieves can use.

Also, it's good you put warning in your title and subject, you might just want to put ++SPOILER++ in the actual title as it is a little too vague and some newbie as you put it might accidentally read your post and get even more pissed off about Yoshimo. But since it's late at night (and your post was pretty funny) I'll forgive you.

SPOILER BELOW -ED
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How many people, when playing BG2 the first time thru decided that they were going to do ALL the quests available in Chapter 2.. Umar Hills, Trademeet, Druid Cove, D'Arnise Castle, Cult of the Eyeless, etc. so they could level their characters up to the max before continuing (wasted SO much money to keep under 15,000 in-town), then find out that you'd F--KIN WASTED 2,000,000 EXPERIENCE ON THAT PITIFUL EXCUSE FOR A MAN YOSHIMO!!

*composes self*

I'm calm now. Sorry for the outburst.

Well, just wondering if anyone else was as pissed off as I was... I dual classed him from Bounty-Hunter to Fighter at Level 12, then had him Grand Master with Two Handed Sword, and Two Handed Skill, backstabbing with the Sword of Chaos for 4x damage. Had him to about Level 15 Fighter, then he works his mojo on Irenicus. *shakes head*

Kept his heart for good measure. There's no way in hell i'm releasing him from Irenicus' curse.

Anyway, enough of this. Any new-starters reading this for tips... DON'T USE YOSHIMO! He's a waste of perfectly good experience. I stopped playing for a week after I turned him into meaty chunks, almost restarted the game for the third time.

Btw: Black Isle should have ammended one of their loading tips... instead of "your characters dont need food, however you do"... they should warn about SLEEP LOSS! Damn! the number of days i've turned up to work with under 3hrs sleep saying 'i'll just finish this quest, then i'll go to bed'.

Lets start a petition... for an expansion pack, add the tip "Don't forget to SLEEP!"

... and another "Don't get too attached to your NPCs. They really -do- hate you."

At least in Torment, you knew half of your companions wanted you dead, it was just a matter of time


Wow. Long post. Heh. I praise anyone that makes it this far, and still in a rational state of mind.

Gah. I really liked Yoshimo. Why'd they have to make such a neat and useful character a traitor? Couldn't they have made Anomen a traitor or something? : P
On one last note; "KAAAI!! Yeah." How does that bloody thief do so much damage in melee?

Whoops... Uh, ok... this is a spoiler..... the "subject" i set had more info than just 'warning'....

I too, think its good with such elaborate plot twists, and especially the interaction with NPCs (Oh, Aerie, how I love your.... scars..).. but killing off an NPC that's been build up to almost max exp was a little harsh... however, it has made me want to play the game thru again.

Anyone know of any decent thieves in the game? Or should I create my own.

Memnoch: Are you sure about the non-backstab with the non-thief sword, even tho he was a figther? If he wasn't backstabbing, he was doing one hell of a lot of damage... oh well

[Memnoch]

Unfortunately Yoshimo was the pick of the bunch. I hear Jan can get to be quite good if you get him early and develop him, except he's multiclass and will not level up as quickly as a pure thief. Then comes Imoen, then Nalia. It basically comes down to logical plot vs. maximum efficiency. Logically you would take Yoshi, he would betray you, hence providing you with a convenient spot to pick up Imoen. 2nd time around you would probably play for max efficiency and not pick up Yoshi, but you would then be faced with the dilemma of a *somewhat* unrealistic situation of making Imoen find her way back to Athkatla by herself or by developing an alternate NPC and then leaving them behind in Athkatla so you don't lose them forever in picking up Imoen. Decision trees, decision trees...

I'm 99.9% sure that you can only backstab with weapons like longswords, shortswords and daggers. 2H swords, being six feet long, would be too unwieldy to backstab with. Maybe you were just doing lots of damage anyway Double check it, next time you attack from behind with the Sword of Chaos check the combat script to see if they attributed the multiplier to you. I'd love to be proven wrong.

[The.Relic]

This is a great topic, and I have to agree with all positions presented here. I think this is one aspect of so many that really proves the value of the work put into this game. Yoshimo is the only really viable option if you want a good thief, and in this game, you have to have one. And yes, DecieverTRX, I felt much the same as you, having invested a fortune in money, XP, and liking his friendly flamboyant manner. Having him turn traitor was enfuriating. I have also staggered into work on many occasions bleary eyed from lack of sleep. I also have to agree with Memnoch, it was perfect. The most damaging and damnable traitors are the ones close to heart.
My current games are Elf/Ranger, Human/Fighter, Human/Fighter/Kensai, I stopped playing Half-Orc/Fighter because it is impossible to develope romance dialagues with any of the female NPC's. I am definately starting a game with a Thief protagonist so that I won't have to spend, and WASTE so much on Yoshi though.

Funny, I went all teary-eyed when Yoshi turned traitor on me. It was definitely a good plot twist... but it didn't really seem to work out properly, if you understand. Yoshimo's attitude really wasn't very 'traitor-like'; too flippant and conversational. Especially those little interactions with the NPCs.

Jan: "Lately I've been working on a turnip peeler. A magical device, of course, designed to peel 100 turnips per minute. I'm really quite close to a breakthrough. Naturally, however, it does cost well over 100 gold pieces per day to run. But think of the uses!"

Yoshimo: "Why, turnip peeling, for one."

Jan: "Exactly! You've got a knack for logical thinking, Yoshi. You could go far in the service of Gond."

My advice to everyone is this; if your main character isn't a thief, don't bother playing single play. Play a multi game and make your own thief, because when Yoshi goes, that's it. Jan's okay, but I really have to favour pure classes over multi- or dual- classes.
However, as a sidenote, I'm working on a little patch to stop Yoshi from turning traitor on you if you do a certain string of events (i.e. make friends with him. It'll be completely centered around conversation and dialogue responses. Trying to figure out how I can get around that whole geas thing). Let's see how far I get before going insane.
As for backstabbing with a two-handed sword: nope. 'Your weapon is unsuitable for backstab'. And rightly so, too. Backstabbing with a sword taller than yourself can't be easy.

of course, every sane player whos not thief class would pick yoshi right away. But i believe that's the trick of Black Isle; for a player to feel somewhat sorry for losing Yoshi or say additional twist at least for a weak plot. But if u did not cheat or at least wise enough to get beef yourself up before proceeding to "no retreat no surrender" chapters, u will at least explore areas for sidequest and items where yoshi is a must. Anyway later in the game, u almost need a thief anyway. oppss quite a spoiler... sorry

Yeah you need a thief in your party for sure, theres 3 prime requisites to have in any party
1)fighter
2)mage
3)healer
4)thief
then the other 2 you can mix m match, fighter mages come in really handy, just look at all the experience youll get form learnin spells with 3 mages in your party???!!! PLUS, if you see somethin ocmin from far away, and you all have 10+ level mages, let the magic missiles fly!!1 3 mages, 5 missiles each that 15d4 +15 damage, heh heh thats at LEAST 30 damage up to 75!!!
i love my party