Lord of the Rings - Off Topic

Yorick,

Thomas Covenant series is a brilliant piece of work, in fact I have read all of Donaldsons work including his latest journey in SCI-FI, great stuff. However (diplomatic part) I must agree a little with Arak, the Thomas Covenant series could easily put someone off, due to his annoying non believing-I'm in a dream nature that carries on far too long, putting that aside though it was still a great piece.

Still even though I have read lots of Fiction, Eddings, Feist, Lieber, Donaldson, Asimov, Brooks, salvatore, etc. I still find myself going back to Tolkien and LOTR. What causes that? is it a madness of mine or the fact that it is a damn good read. Regardless of who started the genere, it was a stroke of genius, a piece befitting its award of Best Work of the century, (or something like that). The start may be a bit drawn out but that is what it is meant to do, I think. He spends time building up the characters personalities, subtly drawing you into their lives, which is why the book is so hard hitting, building you up to a huge tumultuous climax. The problems that befall the fellowship almost affect you..... Now that must be good writing.

[Yorick]

But the non-belief is intrinsic to his survival without hope of a cure. Apparently Donaldsons father worked in Leper colonies and Thomas was based on actual people.

Also apparently Donaldson was only 30 when it was published! What does that say?

I had an interesting experience with that series. When I was in high school I started it, and it gripped me - until he hit the land! It bored me to tears so much I did the unthinkable.... read each summary at the start of each book, and then the end. Merely to sate my curiosity!

As an adult I went back and couldn't believe what I'd missed. I love the fact that part of you hates him. He himself does, he's a prick to people, self-creating the outcast/repulsion label that has ignorantly been cast upon victims of such a cruel disease.

The layers in that series are wonderfully thought provoking. It's more than just a nice story.

Agreed, The Covenant series is one of those books that when you pick it up, although the character annoys you like F***, you can't put it down, you just wish you could grab hold of the man and slap him around a bit. I suppose thats what a good book is made to make you do, involve you with the character(s)....

I just wanted to add my part to this. I agree that Tolkien did not invent the fantasy genre. In fact, there were many works for him to draw upon. Some have already mentioned a couple but neglected some very important works that had a profound impact on all writers interested in myth and religion of Tolkien's day and now (a more accurate source per se for modern fantasy).

Two main works I will mention, and if you are true enthusiasts (and able to handle more archaic language), I would encourage you to go find a copy and read them, because they are what Tolkien had laying around to use for sources. The first is "Golden Bough" by James George Frazer, published in 1890, a book about the source and influence of magic, myth, and religion (description not totally accurate). The second book is "The Well at the World's End" by William Morris, published in 1896, a book almost certainly to have had an affect in molding and helping to shape some of Tolkien's core fantasy elements. Check them out. I had to delve into the deep recesses of undergraduate literature study to get these. My major back then was literature btw.

Also, current reining fantasy author in my book is George R. R. Martin. Spectacular work on his first 3 books. Can't wait for the next three. Better than Jordan (he's slowing down now).

[Zoratorak]

hmm.... i wuz wonderin....
can any of you guys tell me which authors and thier books are the most popular and best right now (fantasy and Sci Fiction only pls)

Wow, this is getting to be a long thread....
Well i think that although i enjoyed reading Lotr and the hobbit, they are just not THAT good. They are good, but they are not the best.

Tolkien was brilliant, thats not in dispute, but i do not think anyone could ever lay claim to "inventing" the genre, and i would not say that this was the first book in such a genre either. Folk lore, fairy tales, rumour, myth etc etc all involve mythical characters such as elves and dwarves and giants. Admittedly, he managed to combine these elements into a realistic world, with a decent plot. But he did not INVENT any of them...

There are a lot of GOOD books out there now, Teery Goodkind, Robert Jordan, Feist, Kerr to name but a few. And i woudl say that all of these bring something into the genre. They can all lay claim to adding some new idea, twist or plot that is brilliant. Tolkien also contibuted, and he may have given the genre A begginning, but not THE begginning. He may have given people the ideas to write novels in this genre, but he did not tell them WHAT to write, or what to write ABOUT in a specific manner.

As for the film (which was what this thread was about). It can only be a good thing, i do hope it is not like the Phantom menace, which i found to be completly rubbish!!!!!!!

Bazz

lord of the rigs what about the dungons and dragons movie! and the best writers are elanie cunningham and R.A. Savolador and Ed Greenwood. and i do like tolkins lord of the rings never got past the Hobbit. and Dune gee i nearly fell a sleep.

sorry i stopped magic mush sense in the last post I mean, some of the best writers are, and i never read pasts the hobbit. (gee you think i could use my own langue.)

me again. i just like to say i never typed the word magic on the last post. scary.

Maybe i missed something here, but isn't it quite obvious that Tolkien didn't invent the fantasy genre. The fact that this has been restated countless times on this board confuses me. No one person can ever really take credit for inventing anything (except maybe god, if you believe in that sort of thing) so it seems fairly moot to be discussing whether he was the genious inventor of the fantasy genre. There were many different sources that he pulled from in order to write these books, most have been aforementioned although some fairly basic ones have been left out ("Elvish Delight", R.J. Bledboard; "Marquee de Saints", Marcus Dewill; "Forlorn Withering", Elrica Melanna...) But it is also important to understand that the writers preceeding Tolkien also pulled from sources that came before them.

Regardless of this though, I feel that Tolkien did take a new direction in writing the Lord of the Rings series. I mean, the man created his own world...And this wasn't just a map with towns and mountain ranges that the protagonists were able to traverse through, his world of Middle-Earth had depth. Before he ever completed the Hobbit, Tolkien had already created the earlier histories of Middle-Earth. The coming of the Ainur and the Valar, the chaining of Melko, the great war which ended the first age (which Elrond was actually apart of)...all of these were laid down as groundwork before Tolkien even finished the "Preface" to the Lord of the Rings...The Hobbit. He did this in order to give what I before described as depth, and in doing so also managed to create a world that was extremely life-like due to the lack of contradictions found in so many modern day authors (R.A. Salvatore, Meredith Gibbins, Anne McCaffery, you know the rest...) It is for this reason, along with many other great aspects found in his books, that make J.R.R. Tolkien one of the greatest authors of our time.