Calling to all who...

[Roboghost]

Current game point:
Easthaven -- finished, but leveling my druid to 7 and paladin to 6 (in that order)...this allows for an easy {kind of} run to the tower in Kuldahar Pass.

With two tanks:
I find a pure druid is the way to go. I can do all battles without retreating [one at a time] using this strategy. They may peak out faster than a F/D, but the SC druid helps fill in the gaps while the other characters are coming into their own later in the game.

Here is how it goes:
- Get druid to level 5 for first major Easthaven battle in the cave.
- Get druid to level 6 for the last major Easthaven battle in the cave [Ogres].
- Get druid to level 7 for the first run though Kuldahar Pass.

Do this, and no retreating from battles if you don't get careless. Druids can get armored up REAL nice before they hit some of the last areas of IWD and before embarking into HoW and TotL [my druid will be at a -8]. Until then, he will be casting spells in the back. It is RARE that I need to involve anyone else but my two tanks in battles anyhow -- they are usually hashing it out along with my myriad of summons! My other four character will all have summoned creatures to call up at all times ; )

[Aerich]

Your choice. [img]smile.gif[/img] I just happen to like the increased versatility and melee/missile punch of a F/D. I will admit that the early game would be easier with a druid 1-2 levels higher, but it wasn't too difficult going with characters that take a little longer to grow into their strength.

I haven't had to retreat much other than in the Easthaven caves, and to find a safe place to rest. Most of the few other retreats actually have involved tactical repositioning - two tanks and summons or not, sometimes you can be overmatched, especially when you enter Dragon's Eye. A structured withdrawal of a dozen paces can give you much-needed time to recharge summons and drop a few spells.

[ZFR]

Just a couple of ranger/cleric questions.

1)Will the C/R get the ranger quasi-dual-wield-extra-attack?
2)Can anyone tell for sure how the spells are managed? i.e.:
a)will the C/R get access to druid spells soon as his cleric level is high enough to cast cleric spells of that particular level even if his ranger level is not high enough?
b)is the number of spells he can cast per day the [i]sum[i] of his cleric and ranger allowances, or are only the ones from the cleric counted?
All those are with How and TotL. I need a 100% sure answer pls.

[Aerich]

1) Yes. And the extra attack also works with two-handed weapons, strangely enough - it was brought to my attention and I tested it (so there IS a reason to take staff proficiency ).

2a) The C/R gets access to druid spells when the ranger would get access. That means ranger lvl 6 for 1st lvl druid spells, I believe. You will wait a while for Static Charge, but you will get it.

2b) To be honest, I don't know, as I've never counted it out. A C/R with 18 Wis has a ton of spell slots. I think it's the sum.

Answers 1 and 2a are for sure. I'll check on 2b.

Edit: to answer 2b, it looks like a C/R doesn't get additional spell slots for the ranger class, just access to ranger spells. My high level F/D and R/C have the same number of spell slots (allowing for a lvl difference of one), which wouldn't be the case if the ranger's spell slots were added on to the cleric's spell allowance.

[ 02-26-2006, 05:58 PM: Message edited by: Aerich ]

[ZFR]

Originally posted by Aerich: 1) And the extra attack also works with two-handed weapons, strangely enough - it was brought to my attention and I tested it (so there IS a reason to take staff proficiency ).

Yes I read about that. Just wasnt sure if MC rangers get it too. But I actually doubt I'll have him use a 2 handed weapon, feels like cheating since the extra attack was supposed to come from dual wielding (don't want to start a discussion here whether it is cheating or not, I just feel it is a bit cheesy). Anyway, in cases where I would've used a two handed weapon anyway (e.g. for the extra reach, like in Gisella's cellar bug fighting), I'd use it, but otherwise I'll use weapons normally.

Originally posted by Aerich: 2a) The C/R gets access to druid spells when the ranger would get access. That means ranger lvl 6 for 1st lvl druid spells, I believe. You will wait a while for Static Charge, but you will get it.

That's a bummer... kind of makes him a bit weaker... would've been nice to have those druid spells. But then again, I'll be having two druids anyway.

Originally posted by Aerich: 2b) To be honest, I don't know, as I've never counted it out. A C/R with 18 Wis has a ton of spell slots. I think it's the sum. Answers 1 and 2a are for sure. I'll check on 2b. Edit: to answer 2b, it looks like a C/R doesn't get additional spell slots for the ranger class, just access to ranger spells. My high level F/D and R/C have the same number of spell slots (allowing for a lvl difference of one), which wouldn't be the case if the ranger's spell slots were added on to the cleric's spell allowance.

Oh well, I suppose that's not such a big loss. Like you said with high wisdom he will get lots of spells anyway. Thanks for clearing that up.

[ 02-27-2006, 12:40 PM: Message edited by: ZFR ]

[Aerich]

1) Actually, I didn't check the two-handed weapon exploit with the C/R. I know from usage that a C/R does get the extra ranger attack with one-handed weapons, as it should. It is cheesy, and there aren't many good staves anyway, so it's kind of pointless for a C/R.

2a) Are you starting HoF from scratch? You'll have Entangle in the Vale of Shadows with your C/R. Access to spells is not really a problem except in the very early going.

2b) If spells matter that much to you, there are those Wis-increasing permanent potions. Personally, I always end up resting with at least a few spells still memorized and uncast. It takes a real masochist to walk into a tough fight on HoF with only half a dozen spells left to be cast among the entire party.

[ZFR]

Got the laptop... Going to start today or tommorow. [img]smile.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img] [img]smile.gif[/img]

Just one thing more. Till now I have always went to HoW just after completeing badges before fighting Poquelin (last possible moment), then HoW, ToTL just before Sea of Moving Ice, finish How, then finish IWD. This time I plan to finish IWD completely, then only go to HoW and TotL, for two reasons: 1. for the sake of change, 2. to get the improved blade.

Questions again: [img]tongue.gif[/img]

1. Will my party be high enough level to tackle HoF Belly (I'm most probably starting from scratch, btw)? I find that the hardest fight ever, much tougher than Issy.
a)I think an important point would be whether my dual fighter->druid (dualled at level 15 or 16, or perhaps 13) would've regained his full fighter abilities. Aerich, can you remeber, the numerical XP you had at that point in your game.
On second thought, I don't really mind a challenging fight, just as long as it is not impossible to win. If MidgetGems could beat him on easy with 6 level 1 gnomes, I can do it in HoF with my party.

2. How is the transition from IWD to HoW, after finishing with Belly:
a)Is it automatic, like SoA->ToB, or do I have to manually export and import.
b)Are all items retained?
c)Is all gold retained?
d)Anything about having to take items out of bags/containers or such?
e)What happens to those characters who dies in fight with Belly.

Thanks all!

[Aerich]

1) I think so. Yes he's tougher, but you should be too. The trick for me is to keep him occupied with summons while you buff up and take out the accompanying golem and glabrezu. Edit: think Stalkers.

1a) Well, I got the six badges then went to HoW, but I had 3.95 mil XP per character at that point. Say 4 mil by the time you deal with Poquelin and the minor fights on the other side. If you dual at fighter lvl 15 (1.75 mil), you will regain your skills at druid lvl 16 (2.025 mil). It will be cutting it close, but it should be possible. If you think you will be short, you could camp in Lower Dorns after a fashion - either leave some shriekers alive in the shrieker garden, or leave the idol intact for a while to keep drawing high level undead.

2a) Automatic exportation, but you will have to start an expansion-only game with those exported characters.

2b) All items are retained except containers (and what's in containers).

2c) I don't know from experience if gold is retained if doing an expansion only - I highly doubt it. That can be solved by carrying a high '+' weapon or three and selling them in the first stages of HoW. You will also find a lot of stuff to sell (and buy) on Burial Isle.

2d) Yes. I'm quite sure that containers do not survive the trip. I'd put together one container of scrolls and potions that you might use in the final fight (and beyond) and make sure you have the inventory space to take them out of the containers before the fight. Sell everything else and buy something expensive to sell in HoW. I recommend carrying mostly priest scrolls, especially Resurrection, and the occasional duplicate mage spell. For potions, use the highest Str enhancing ones available, protection from fire, berduskan black brew, invulnerability, maybe some magic blockers, and the electricity immunity (not the 50%, the full immunity) for earlier in the tower.

2e) I'm not 100% sure. I believe that the character is exported but without items. You don't want that.

[ 03-03-2006, 11:01 PM: Message edited by: Aerich ]

[ZFR]

Started the game. Decided to start from scratch (all start with 0 XP). The party as described before:

_CG half-elf Cleric/Ranger (multi)
_NE dwarf fighter/cleric (multi)
_NN half-elf fighter/druid (multi)
_NN human fighter(15)->druid (dual)
_LE elf fighter/thief/mage (multi)
_NG human bard

Doing Kuldahar Pass right now.
Since there are already several posts made by several people on this thread and Aerich's thread about how to survive HoF I'm not going to repat things. Instead just a few points and random musings and observations.

• I know why I failed when I played HoF from scratch last time. If you play HoF after playing "normal" game, you need to completely reprogram yourself. For instance, don't be afraid to rest after evry goblin.
• Easthaven:
  
  2. If you play without a bard, you will miss out 4800XP before your first real fight (goblin or wolves). While it might not seem much, it means most of your party would be a level lower. Not life threatening, just thought I'd mention it.
  3. For the goblins, each is considered a separate group. Which means even with Call to Arms you can fight them one at a time. Make use of this. You'll never get this luxury again.
• Orc Caves:
  
  1. Managed not to use the "throw everything, exit, rest, re-enter" trick except for the group in the center (re-entered once) and the group at the end with ogres (re-entered twice). Otherwise just used standard tactics.
  2. Your best friends here are 'Entangle' and 'Hold person'. Hold person is much better than entangle because it would first prevent enemies in attacking and second, more important, make each attack of yours an automatic hit. On larger groups I'd cast entangles (several of them) ahead of me so the enemies don't come all at once, and then wait for the those who manage to get out and cast hold person on them and then make a pin-cushion (or in my case pebble-cushion rather) out of them. Generally you'll get most troubles from archers ("immune" to entangle, they can still attack you from it) and ogres (immune to hold person).
  3. I just discovered you don't have to do these caves at all. You can just spot the wagons outside and report to Hrothgar (you'll get less XP from him). This I'm just mentioning since I didn't know about it before. It is highly inadvisable at HoF, since you'll miss out on XP (and items) inside and you'll be much weaker when facing goblins in Kuldahar Pass.
• A tactic you'll use often is "run with one character in circles, while others fire ranged."
• Spells:
  
  1. You've heard it before and you'll hear it again. It's wortn repeating: direct damage spells are generally less useful. "Effect spell" are better.
  2. Druids and clerics are far superior to mage so far, generally because of lack of scrolls. What this game lacks is a sorceror who can cast mage spells without scrolls. This might be a good reason to have mages dualled. By the time you'd regain mage powers you'd have access to scrolls.
  3. If youre wondering what spell to pick for mage, don't pick magic missile. I did that (also for roleplaying reasons; I believe a mage without magic missile is like a knight without a horse). At this stage, the missile (only 1) does little damage, and by the time it becomes useful (5 missiles, no save, takes down mirror image), you'd have found a scroll of it. What to choose? Charm? (see next point) Sleep? Grease? (is this spell useful?) Chromatic Orb (again see next point). Maybe Aerich can help. I chose MM and burning hands... both a mistake.
  4. Charm: useful. However I'm not using it much because in larger enemy groups I'm afraid if I charm an enemy, the others will kill him and I'll miss out his XP. I used it only in case of wolves outside orc caves. In small enemy groups where you can make sure it is you who kills everybody, this can be useful.
  5. Chromatic orb: This spell is different in BG, BG2, IWD and IWD2, and with every patch that comes out . I'm not a fan of this spell because first I'm not really sure what it does at what level, second, in BG2 it could disintegrate at some level and I hate that spell as it destroys items, third I believe it too overpowered when it could kill dragons at some level. Can anyone tell me for sure what it does at what level in IWD (assuming all patches + Totl)? I'm asking this because Azred here mentioned an instant kill with it, while in-game spell description doesn't mention an instant kill anywhere.
• 4 of my characters are restricted to sling (or dart; but I don't use darts)in missile only (well my fighter is still not dual-classed to druid so can use bows and crossbows, but he's got proficiency in missile so is using slings). Not too good, but I'd take cleric and druid spells over bows anytime. Later once I find the returning dagger, my druid could use it. Oh one more question. Why does my fighter get 4 stars in missile weapons? I thought those were restricted to 3 stars max only. Also why can't my F/T/M use composite long bows? Are those for pure fighters only?
• On the Druid dual vs multi comparism, so far multi is far better mainly because she can cast spells, while the dual is still a fighter . Though the to-be-dualled fighter and F/T/M have most kills, mainly because they shoot rather than casting spells or singin.
• Got my 3-level cleric and druid spells in Kuldahar Pass, and hence my first summons (undead). While the skeletons and zombies are okay, they are mainly there to take the punishment while you attack with missile, don't expect them to do much killing for you. Archer skeletons are good [img]smile.gif[/img] . Ad CAll Lightning is one of the few useful direct-damage spells. CAn't wait for static charge .

Well that's that so far. Any comments to my comments or suggestions are welcome, as are replies to the few questions asked above.

[Dundee Slaytern]

..) It is to my understanding that Azred modified his Chromatic Orb, because in all the HoF games I have played, CO never disintegrates, petrifies or instant-slays the target.

It just stuns the target for a very, very long time. The spell description in this case is fairly accurate.

..) I would like to make mention of the choice of spells. In the early game, effect spells are better than damage spells simply because your spellcasters are too low-level to do any credible damage.

Towards the mid-game and end-game however, it becomes prudent to start replacing some of your effect spells with damage spells. The reason for this being that your enemies will start getting much, much better saving throws.

Unless of course... you do not mind casting Prayer, Recitation, Curse, Greater Malison, etc... all the time, and not just during major battles.

The above mentioned spells help to lower down the enemies' saving throws.

Effect spells like Slow, which has a massive saving throw penalty of -4, are also golden. This spell can singlehandedly turn the tide of the battle, especially if you also cast Improved Haste on yourself.

By Dorn's Deep, I had replaced most of my Chromatic Orbs with Magic Missiles. Magic Missiles also serve as a handy tool to disrupt enemy spellcasters.

At level 2, I have a lot of Melf's Acid Arrows, because at higher levels, the amount of damage it does for a spell of its' level is incredible. Very few enemies are immuned to acid damage too.

Level 3 is where I stock up on Slow... lots and lots of Slow. The Bard can take care of Dispel Magic.

Level 4 is a problem, because there are simply too many good spells, and not enough slots. Stoneskin, Emotion:Hopelessness, Mordy~ Force Missiles, Vitrolic Sphere, Greater Malison, Confusion, Dimension Door, the rest of the Emotion spells, etc...

~~~~ ~~~~

Hope this little bit helps.