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Old 01-06-2006, 01:15 PM   #1
Gorluk
Elite Waterdeep Guard
 

Join Date: January 3, 2006
Location: Underdark
Age: 45
Posts: 6
first of all, hello everyone

ok, here's my party, so if you maybe have some comments...

aasimar paladin x / fighter 4 - tank, talker
shield dwarf barbarian x / fighter 4 - tank
shield dwarf battleguard of tempus - tank, 1st cleric
human morninglord of lathander - reserve tank, 2nd cleric
drow rouge 1 / wizard x - thief, magic
aasimar sorceror - magic, talker

now, i'm having some doubts about character developement:

i'm around level 3-4 now, and i'm not sure about some stats / skills / feats.

paladin - should i build his charisma (20 at the moment) or strength (16 at the moment) / which feats should i invest in (would for example cleave be ok? - i already took large sword+power attack)

sorceror - whic spells should i take? (at the moment i have magic missile, chromatic orb and burning hands) - i thought of taking a. scorcher next? is it ok, or should i take something else?

if you have advice for other characters i would be grateful (although i guess developement of others is more straightforward (clerics wisdom, wizard int., sorceror cha etc. / concentration for all, spellcraft for casters etc.)

any advice is welcome

thanks
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Old 01-06-2006, 03:59 PM   #2
Magness
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Join Date: January 7, 2001
Location: Manchester, NH, USA
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Hiya, Gorluk.

That's a perfectly acceptable looking party.

Answers:

Paladin. Build STR. A 20 CHA is more than enough to get the benefits you're looking for. Feats? Don't bother with cleave. Have 2 points in at lease 2 or 3 different weapons. Definitely long sword. Pick a blunt weapon in which to add a 2nd point. Always good to have skill in both blunt and an edged weapon. Take Heretic's Bane and Fiendslayer as they become available. And seeing as you intend to have 4 levels of Ftr, take the 3rd point in long sword when you can. Dash is a nice feat to have. Nothing wrong with a little extra footspeed. Strong back (+50% carrying weight) really isn't a wasted feat.

Sorceror: Forget Ag's Scorcher. Go for Web and Mirror Image at level 2. Fireball, Flame Arrow, Skull Trap are all great L3 spells. Stoneskin is good at L4. Delayed Blast Fireball later on is great. Horrid Wilting, Mass Dominate, Wail of the Banshee, Mordenkainen's Sword are all great spells. Oh, and never forget Symbol of Hopelessness. That's an uber useful spell.

Odd as it may sound, I don't always find improving spellcasting stats to be the best use of stat increases. If you're already at 19 or 20, particularly in a cleric, you might be better off increasing STR or CON, particularly if you put your clerics in melee a lot.


Back to the Sorc. Feats... SF and GSF in Enchantment will help any enchanting spells succeed in charming/holding/dominating or Symbol of hopelessness-ing your targets. Also, take the elemental feats for your favorite elemental spells, like Spirit of Flame for fire-based spells.


With your Wizzy and your Sorc, try to have the Wizzy take different spells from your Sorc. Let them compliment each other's weaknesses, rather than duplicate each other's spellbooks. For example, if your Sorc is really into nuking spells, perhaps consider having your wizzy be more into buffing and summoning spells.


Just some ideas. Good luck.
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Old 01-06-2006, 05:37 PM   #3
krunchyfrogg
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Nice party!

I suggest building CHA with the Paladin. Have the Mage or Sorcerer cast Bull's Strength, which lasts forever on him.

I suggest Bull's Strength, a spell that will help a ton in this game and you will use a whole lot. Acid Arrow and Mirror Image are get too. Get some defensive spells too, they're useful!


After gaining level 3 or 5 as a Wizard, I suggest 1 more level of Rogue for that character. Evasion is awesome, and as a backup spellcaster, maximum level is not a priority.

I suggest putting a lot of points into Spellcraft for the Lathander Cleric and taking the Fire-Spellcasting feats (I think you need Spellcraft of 10 for them).

Paladin should definitely go for Power Attack and Cleave, as should the two Dwarves.
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Old 01-06-2006, 06:31 PM   #4
Gorluk
Elite Waterdeep Guard
 

Join Date: January 3, 2006
Location: Underdark
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thanks for your input

i've gave my paladin strength point at level 4 (he's 17 now, i plan to give him at least 18, and then i will see which route i will take, STR or CHA)

regarding bull's strenght, both of my cleric's already have one, for buffing my paladin and barbarian [img]smile.gif[/img]

now, one more thing - how many points should i invest in diplomacy, intimidate, and bluff for my talker (till now i distributed them evenly every level), how many into knowledge arcana, open lock, disable device and search for my rouge wizard (should i invest in alchemy also), since i'm not sure what's best practice (i mean, will traps, locks, dialogue options need more points to be effective as i'm deeper into the game or...?)

also, should i invest in pickpocket for my rogue?

thnks

[ 01-06-2006, 06:45 PM: Message edited by: Gorluk ]
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Old 01-06-2006, 06:55 PM   #5
Sir Degrader
Thoth - Egyptian God of Wisdom
 

Join Date: November 3, 2001
Location: Canada
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I'd put most into Diplomacy for your talker, I don't find the other ones to be that useful.
Alchemy and Arca are hella useful for a wizard, as is search and open lock. Pickpocketing is kinda neat, but you can easily go through the game never using it.
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Old 01-07-2006, 12:06 PM   #6
Magness
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Gorluk, given your party mix, diplomacy is going to be your primary talking skill. I'm guessing that your Pally is your normal party talker.


If you had a bard or a rogue as the party talker, I'd say that investing in all 3 talking skills would be useful. There are at least 2 places in the game where a strong Intimidate will be useful. There's at least a couple places IIRC where Bluff works. And diplomacy seems to be useful oftne enough.


Knowledge Arcane and Alchemy? ABSOLUTELY!!! Knowledge Arcana is the skill that allows you to identify items without having to cast an Identify spell or paying for identifications.

And there are at least 2-3 times throughout the game where a strong Alchemy skill will be beneficial.

Disable Device, Open Locks, and Search? Well, opinions differ on this. Search seems very useful, since it's nice to know where the traps are without wasting spell slots on Find Traps spells. I personally prefer to have a strong rogue in all of my parties because I like the roleplaying value of finding/disabling traps and opening locks. That said, I recognize that IWD2 doesn't put a very high premium on these skills and there are precious few traps that a healthy tank won't just shrug off. That said, I hope that your wizzy has a max'd INT, cuz you should be able to get plenty of skill points/level to spread around. If your wizzy/rogue isn't trying to be stealthy, I'd try to put some points into search, open locks, and disable device every level or 2, as well as the arcane skills.

Also, don't take your 2nd rogue level too quickly (if you haven't already). If you can delay it for 5-6 levels, when you take the 2nd rogue level, you'll be able to put a LOT of SP into the rogue skills. OTOH, if you take that 2nd rogue level too soon, you'll be limited in the number of SP you'll be allowed to put into the rogue skills.

Pickpocket? With a Wizzy X/Rogue 2? Don't bother.
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Old 01-07-2006, 12:20 PM   #7
Magness
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Quote:
Originally posted by krunchyfrogg:
Nice party!

I suggest building CHA with the Paladin. Have the Mage or Sorcerer cast Bull's Strength, which lasts forever on him.
Building CHA in a pally doesn't get all that much bang for the buck, IMHO. I think that the best thing to do is to build a pally with a lowish WIS, say 8 to 10, and use some stat increases on WIS. (Of course, you can also wait for a certain item.) I prefer also using stat increases for STR and CON. If you've built a pally with an already high CHA, that tends to indicate that other key stats are probably lowish.


Quote:
I suggest Bull's Strength, a spell that will help a ton in this game and you will use a whole lot.
Agree. Bull's STR is a solid spell due to its exceptional duration. That said, Champion's STR gets to be very useful once your cleric has enough levels to give it a usefully long duration. Bull's is great for buffing up prior to taking on an area. Champion's is great for buffing up prior to a specific battle.


Quote:
After gaining level 3 or 5 as a Wizard, I suggest 1 more level of Rogue for that character. Evasion is awesome, and as a backup spellcaster, maximum level is not a priority.
Also, due to the lack of arcane scrolls, a mild amount of slowing of a wizard's level progression is not a problem.


Quote:
I suggest putting a lot of points into Spellcraft for the Lathander Cleric and taking the Fire-Spellcasting feats (I think you need Spellcraft of 10 for them).
10 points in spellcraft is the correct prerequisite for all of the elemental magic feats. And you're spot on about a Lathander cleric wanting to take Spirit of Flame. A definite "must have".


Quote:
Paladin should definitely go for Power Attack and Cleave, as should the two Dwarves.
Bah. Power Attack, perhaps. Cleave is a waste of time, IMHO. Power Attack is particularly useful if you've stunned/immobilized an enemy and you want to pick up additional damage. Cleave just isn't worth the feat point. There are plenty of other lesser, but useful feats for a pally or fighter or fighting cleric. Dash, Strong Back, Heretic's Bane, Iron Will, Greater Fortitude, Lightning Reflexes, Maximized Attacks for any character with 4 Ftr levels, extra points in your backup weapons.

I guess that I've never been fond of Cleave.
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Old 01-08-2006, 10:52 AM   #8
Gorluk
Elite Waterdeep Guard
 

Join Date: January 3, 2006
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Quote:
Originally posted by Magness:
I personally prefer to have a strong rogue in all of my parties because I like the roleplaying value of finding/disabling traps and opening locks. That said, I recognize that IWD2 doesn't put a very high premium on these skills and there are precious few traps that a healthy tank won't just shrug off.
yeah, i know that IWD2 is lacking in thieving/rogue department. it even doesn't give you experience for disarming traps (is that 3E rule or just in IWD2?). i remember that i've read somewhere one of the developers said they didn't have more time to implement those skills better in the game...it's a shame, i would love it.

btw. there's one more thing i wondered - should i level the moment i got enough points to, or wait for some time: 'till now i leveled just before i got enough points for one more level, meaning i'm always one level behind. should i worry about relative party exp. level if i have 6 person party (i pretty much do all the quests and kill all the monsters there are)

also, should i consider giving feats in crossbow to my casters (lathander, wizard, sorc), since they all are using crossbows very often (any time they are not engaged in casting), and they are quite helpful that way (i know i should give them first SP and GSP, so i'm not sure if it would be smart to spend point on weapon, and they all already have 1 point in crossbow, so they are proficient)

thanks

[ 01-08-2006, 12:48 PM: Message edited by: Gorluk ]
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Old 01-08-2006, 11:54 AM   #9
Gorluk
Elite Waterdeep Guard
 

Join Date: January 3, 2006
Location: Underdark
Age: 45
Posts: 6
btw, at the moment i'm near the end of goblin fortress in chapter 1, and if i leveled now i would be around 6 - is that ok?
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Old 01-10-2006, 01:06 AM   #10
Magness
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gorluk:
quote:
Originally posted by Magness:
I personally prefer to have a strong rogue in all of my parties because I like the roleplaying value of finding/disabling traps and opening locks. That said, I recognize that IWD2 doesn't put a very high premium on these skills and there are precious few traps that a healthy tank won't just shrug off.
yeah, i know that IWD2 is lacking in thieving/rogue department. it even doesn't give you experience for disarming traps (is that 3E rule or just in IWD2?). i remember that i've read somewhere one of the developers said they didn't have more time to implement those skills better in the game...it's a shame, i would love it. [/QUOTE]Yeah, it is a shame. I continue to play rogues cuz I like'em and generally don't want to feel like I'm cheesing the game due to a lack of serious trap threats.


Quote:

btw. there's one more thing i wondered - should i level the moment i got enough points to, or wait for some time: 'till now i leveled just before i got enough points for one more level, meaning i'm always one level behind. should i worry about relative party exp. level if i have 6 person party (i pretty much do all the quests and kill all the monsters there are)
It's a matter of personal preference. Holding off on your level-ups is often refered to as "Level Squatting". I don't do it myself because it generally feels like cheating to me. But if you're OK doing it, that's your choice.

As to how long to hold off if you choose to level squat. Having no experience doing it, I'm not an expert. However, I think that one guideling would be that if you start having trouble with the enemies, perhaps it's time to level up.


Quote:

also, should i consider giving feats in crossbow to my casters (lathander, wizard, sorc), since they all are using crossbows very often (any time they are not engaged in casting), and they are quite helpful that way (i know i should give them first SP and GSP, so i'm not sure if it would be smart to spend point on weapon, and they all already have 1 point in crossbow, so they are proficient)

thanks
I almost always arm my mages with Xbows, since they usually have only meager DEX's and are better off getting one good shot with the best possible To Hit bonuses, vs. multiple shots with a much lower To Hit roll from a different ranged weapon.

Regarding your cleric, that can be a different story. A lot depends on how you built your cleric. if you built a very priestly, hide behind the lines cleric with lowish STR, and perhaps a decent DEX, an Xbow or a Bow (if your cleric happens to be an elf) is probably a good choice. OTOH, if your cleric is a fairly strong, melee worthy, plate wearing backup tank, maybe a weapon that adds the STR bonus to damage would be a good choice (best choice would be a sling).

In the party that I'm currently building, I have a cleric with a 16 STR and a 12 DEX and I'm arming her with a sling to take advantage of the +3 STR damage bonus.

So, is it worth spending an extra Feat point on Crossbow? That's a very iffy question. Here's my take.

Sorcerer? Probably not. Sorcs get the absolute minimum of feats. Save'em for magic related feats.

Wizard? Yes. Yes? you ask. YES. If you were to look at the appropriate tables, you'd discover that Wizards get quite a few more feats than a Sorcerer. Wizards have the Feat point to afford spending one on a 2nd point in Xbow, if that's his weapon of choice.

Cleric? Entirely personal preference and can largely depend on how often you even use ranged fire for your cleric. BTW, with a cleric of lathander, you'll be wanting to take Spirit of Flame as soon as you get 10 points in Spellcraft and have a feat point to spend. Something to keep in mind.
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