question about religion, philosophy

[Harkoliar]

okay this topic may be sensitive. i know for a while that power ethics can be considered satanism.. but do not worship satan at all. i recall that someone said that the church gave it the name satanism to deter them from believing in power ethics. (that was a long time ago.. i cant recall where or when or the refernce so someone pls correct me if im wrong)

first of all my knowledge of power ethics is simply might is right. not necessarily power, raw strength, but also knowledge, influence and such. i believe in that kind of power but i also believe in compassion and morality. so i can call myself a semi- of both. im also semi conservatist and liberalist. and im also a roman catholic and believe in god. but the real question is whether or not should i call myself satanist simply because i also believe in power ethics. satanist does not have a nice ring to it and the ignorant may be too afraid of me if i declare myself as one. help?

note: my belief of satanist is power ethics and not satan mind you as stated above.

[Timber Loftis]

I think you're right on the "power ethics" thing. The Satanic bible is not about satan but about you, and making your life your way and shouldering the burden yourself. It is about not falling to the power of others and about using your power over others to get what you want. Naming it "satanic" is very misleading.

I believe a fair bit in power ethics myself. Tempered, of course.

[LordKathen]

Being athiest, you could say that I live by "power ethics", though I have never heard that term before. I believe in myself, and my ability to obtain what I need, to survive my family and myself. I have a social moral base, not "christian", just common sense. I certainly dont believe in satan. I would say that I am like Timber, probly just some aspects of "power ethics", but temperate. Just my [img]graemlins/twocents.gif[/img]

Just my thoughts here....
"A rose by any other name would smell as sweet." or foul as the case may be [img]smile.gif[/img]

I think...but am not sure...but belief in your self as being the final arbiter of right and wrong, good and evil, is akin to satanism to alot of christian sects.

Sad to say Hark, but I think that you cannot count yourself as Roman Catholic...too much of what you believe is counter to the church's doctrine.
So it would appear that in trying to find your way, you are trying to have it "both" ways as it were....

Not trying to flame you or anything just trying to comment on how I see the situation.

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by MagiK: I think...but am not sure...but belief in your self as being the final arbiter of right and wrong, good and evil, is akin to satanism to alot of christian sects.

Let's say your cannon of books that are the final arbiter are the bible, written by men, and the religious interpretations thereof over time, written by men.

Mine are the laws, written by men, jurisprudence philosophy and social philosophy and ethical philosophy, written by men.

To-may-to, to-mah-to.

[Cerek the Barbaric]

Interesting topic, Harkolier. I've never heard of "power ethics" before either, so I will use your term of "might makes right".

As a Christian, I obviously disagree with this philosophy. Not just because it doesn't honor God, but because "might makes right" inherently leads to abuse, neglect, or termination of those that are considered "inferior". Since they don't "measure up" to the required qualifications, they are to be ignored or eliminated.

I also disagree (although less strongly) with being in charge of one's own destiny. God created each of us with a specific purpose and plan in mind and He naturally wants to see these plans come to fruition. He does allow us to make our own decisions and to choose our own path (at least to a degree)...but the final result or destination is still the same. God also wants us to place our trust in Him when we are troubled or in need. I know from personal experience that whenever I have tried to solve certain problems or situations on my own, I didn't have much success. When I finally humbled myself and turned the problem over to God, the situation improved dramatically and immediately. God has an infinite love for each of us and He wants to prove that love to us in a real and demonstrable way. That is why He rewards those who pray to Him for help and guidance.

I agree that you should not call yourself a Satanist because of the negative connotations associated with that label. Even though most Satanists do not actually worship Satan (something I learned from a previous discussion on this board [img]graemlins/thumbsup.gif[/img] ), the general public doesn't realize this. They only know one definition for Satanism - and that is worshipping the guy with the forked tail, cloven hooves, and pitchfork.

I also agree with Magik that you seem to be wanting to have your religion "both ways". You believe in God, but you also believe in "self-empowerment". These two philosophies are mutually exclusive, so you need to pray, meditate, or contemplate which philosophy suits you (as an individual) best.

Timber and Lord K. - I hope I didn't offend either of you. I respect your personal philosophies, even though I disagree with them. I was just explaining why they don't work for me personally.

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: quote: Originally posted by MagiK: I think...but am not sure...but belief in your self as being the final arbiter of right and wrong, good and evil, is akin to satanism to alot of christian sects.

Let's say your cannon of books that are the final arbiter are the bible, written by men, and the religious interpretations thereof over time, written by men.

Mine are the laws, written by men, jurisprudence philosophy and social philosophy and ethical philosophy, written by men.

To-may-to, to-mah-to. [/QUOTE]
Just an opinion dude [img]smile.gif[/img] According to my religion the Bible was written by men at the direction of God. Do your Jurisprudence folks say that?

[Timber Loftis]

First, yes, most jurisprudence folks do base a lot of their perspective on the Christian God. As well, I think you'd be hard-pressed to read Hegel, St. Thomas Aquinas, or Aristotle without finding a grounding in a god.

Second, if God's secretaries and stenographers were anything like those I've worked with, they never get it quite right when quoting me. They are human, after all.

Third, whether God put the notion of "the good" in your head or the chemicals floating around in your brain put the notion there, the fact that it exists is the relevant fact. Whether it comes from some eternal geezer or from inside us, these "universal truth" notions exist -- and to say they are granted from this guy or that girl or this pantheon or than single god matters not when wondering at the fact that they exist.

So, the fact I take my morals from places other than the myth a Christian believes in does not detract from the value therein.

[ 06-09-2003, 02:01 PM: Message edited by: Timber Loftis ]

[Timber Loftis]

Cerek, all respects but I don't think "self-empowerment" and God are mutually exclusive. I certainly think God helps those who help themselves. Self-empowerment is about a certain responsibility for your actions. It's about not whining when you're down and doing something about it.

It doesn't mean you have to go to the "might makes right" extreme.

But, I certainly don't think God would want us all to hang out on porches with our 40's lamenting our problems to him and doing nothing proactive about them ourselves. Trust in God mustn't extend to a decrease in self-reliance and taking responsibility.