The strongest thief!!!

Yes, you can only drink one potion per round. So a good tactics is to wait a round, backstab, immediately drink a potion, then wait again, etc. You can get as many backstabs as you have invisibility potions off with this.

[el_kalkylus]

I have been testing my characters in the pit (copper coronet) to see who is the best in combat. First up Anomen vs Minsc. Anomen has -10 in ac and 7 in THACO and 2 attacks/round with a +1 mace (that slows the opponent) and a shield. Minsc on the other hand has -5 in ac and 1 in THACO and does 5/2 attacks with Lilarcor. I didn't bother to dualwield with Minsc, because he then gets 3 in THACO mainhand and 7 in THACO offhand with the best weapons (the best flail and a mace +2), and 3 attacks/round. With the statistic, I would have thought Anomen would lose big time, but you never know since he has very good ac. I tried 5 times, and in the end Anomen came out as a winner with 4 wins. It was all because of the mace that slowed the opponent of course, because when I equipped Anomen with mace of disruption (+2) he couldn't stand a chance.

Next up was Jaheira vs Minsc. Jaheira has the girdle of giant strength, and has -8 in ac, 3 in THACO and does 2 attacks/round with a +2 scimitar, but she has a little lower hitpoints than Minsc has. It was very even, and I decided to make it a draw.

Next fight was a little unfair, I just wanted to see how superior my kensai/thief was to the rest of the group. He has 1 in ac and -1 in main hand and 2 in off hand and 4 attacks/round with celestial fury in the main hand and a katana +2 in the off hand. Since he is a permanent level 9 kensai, he also has +3 to hit and +6 to damage, which is a lot more than the others. I removed the ring of gaxx and boot of speed of course, otherwise it would have been too easy. I didn't use my beloved backstab abilty because the victim always die from one hit. El_kalkylus vs Anomen lasted for about 5 sec.
El_kalkylus does 33 damage to Anomen
El_kalkylus does 27 to Anomen
Anomen does 13 to El_kalkylus
El_kalkylus save vs spell
El_kalkylus: Critical hit
54 damage
death

It was something like this.

El_kalkylus vs Minsc lasted for about 4 sec, since Minsc always get's stunned by the Celestial fury.
El_kalkylus vs Jaheira was not that long either, but she did more damage to El_kalkylus.
Edwin or Jan hasn't much to say in the time being, since they haven't got very good spells yet. Maybe Edwin would stand a chance against Anomen or Minsc or Jaheira, but definately not El_kalkylus.

What have I learned from this?
1. A kensai is a VERY offensive fighter, but gets hit often. (which doesn't matter since he has already killed the opponent from the first 4-5 hits).
2. A 9th level kensai can beat a 15th level Minsc (or a 11th level Jaheira) (Of course the thief is at level 15 and this makes the 9th level kensai about a 11th level kensai).
3. Because he is extremely offensive, he makes the perfect thief. The backstabs never fails because of his good THACO, and because when you are invisible you decrease your THACO by 4. Not only the THACO is good, but the damage he deals out, which makes the x5 backstab do very much damage.
4. Minsc is a worthless fighter. I use him as a tank, and he shoots some arrows sometimes. I COULD dump him and get the great Korgan if I wanted, since Korgan deals out more damage and has better THACO and hp than Minsc has, but I keep him because I promised myself that I would play the whole game with him.
5. If Anomen can be almost as good a fighter as Minsc, then Anomen is quite good for the party. (SPOILER ABOUT ANOMEN)
Now when Anomen is a knight, he has 16 wis, and with the bracers of dexterity he has very good ac too, which makes him a great cleric and a fairly good fighter. If you boost him up, he will be quite a good fighter.
6. Jaheira is a little better than Anomen where it comes to fighting, and she will be better with time. The problem is that she is a multiclass and doesn't get to cast high level druid spells.

I would like to try that half-orc fighter/thief, since you get a very good ac too. I don't know about the damage though, I don't know if a half-orc fighter/thief can deal out as much damage as my kensai/thief because of his 19 strength. I have a hard time believing it can, but then again you can tank with him. The problem I see about being a fighter/thief half-orc is that you will never be a good thief (or a fighter). You can never get enough points to hide in shadows, move silently, set traps, pick locks and find traps with a fighter/thief (multiclass). If you start by putting your points in find traps and pick locks, then you miss out the fun of backstabbing when your invisibility potions and spells run out. On the other hand, if you start by putting your points in hide in shadows, move silently and set traps, you will never get enough points to find traps and pick locks, which means you are stuck having another (near useless) thief in your party (Jan or Yoshimo). Maybe it doesn't matter, because my 15th level thief doesn't have enough points yet to kick Jan out of the party, but I reckon I only need 2 more levels.

The greatest abilty of the thief I think, is the backstab. Last game, I had a little trouble against mages, since they always ruin the great plan you have. With a thief in your party you can just backstab the mage and he/she is gone. Monsters like trolls and Greater Wolfwere are also easy to kill with a thief. One hit and let the others take care of the rest.

I question the test though, because how much of the butt-kicking is your kensai and how much is the celestial fury? Try a katana +2 as a better indicator. Geedubya uses the Celestial Fury as well. In a duel between the two, I suspect whoever stuns the opponent first is going to win.
The reason Amoen beat Minsc was because of the severe slashing penalties (-4) a sword gets against full plate mail and the lack of penalty when using a blunt weapon. Minsc might have won using the flail (which slows) and a mace.
As for not having enough points as a thief when dual classed, I disagree with that. The dual class thief rises in levels faster than any dual class. In addition, I can use armor that increases stealth ability if I chose (the Umar Hills armor). I find with my percentages in the 90s, this is not really a problem. It doesn't take long to max out on skills as a thief, and at that point you will regret not having more levels as a fighter.

[el_kalkylus]

I didn't know about that slashing penalty, and I didn't know there was a flail that has a slowing ability.

I agree that I should have taken 2 katanas +2 instead. I will try and test that later. Are you saying it takes almost as long time as a multiclass to max out your thief-skill? Or are you saying that a dualled-class thief can max out much earlier than I did (in thief-skills)? I think it depends on how much points you are willing to spend on certain abilities. For example, I want a lot of points in hiding, move silent and set trap, and for that I need at least 300 points, 100 in each categori. After that I will put points in find traps and pick locks. Now I have 115 hiding, 130 in move silent, and 115 in set traps, which I found out was quite unneccessary. I could have put the extra points (those over 100) on other abilities. When I dealed out the points, I didn't think of the mercykiller ring (dumb as I was), so now I am stuck with 135 in hiding, 150 in move silent and 135 in set traps.

As for the fighting skill, my thief will have THACO bonuses every 3rd level and other bonuses as well I think. This will be quite sufficient in the end game, because he is very good already. I don't know what the difference in dealing out damage is between the two classes kensai/thief and half-orc fighter/thief, but you seem to know much about statistic G.W, so could you tell me if your fighter/thief deals out more damage in the end game?

I have checked with the experience of multiclassing. If you are a fighter/thief you will max out as a 13 level fighter and a 16 level thief. This means your base THACO will be 8 at that time. I haven't gone to underdark yet, and my base THACO is 11. There is not much difference there I know, but I will be able to max out as a level 21 thief (or level 20 don't know). This means the THACO will be about the same for the both of us.

It looks like you will have the same base THACO as me. Plus you get mastery while a fighter-thief can only dual wield. ARRRGHH... Geedubya must smash!!!!

So it looks like I didn't make the best choice after all. I had another thought though, would a wizard killer dual classed at 9 make the best thief? After all, thieves aren't supposed to wear magic helms and use magic shields. A master of the short bow wizard-slayer could be all that the archer-thief could have been.

[el_kalkylus]

No, your choice is good. You can tank with your fighter/thief and wear armor. Not only that, but you have 19 in str and con which means you will hit hard and have pretty good hp.
I prefered having a thief that could deal out more damage, and get more thief-skill-points, but your thief is just as good. It depends on how you want to play the game (as usual).

Personally, I think the wizard slayer kit sucks. The advantages of being a wizard slayer are not very impressive, and the disadvantages are just too much (cannot wear magical items). Why not choose kensai/thief and put points in axes. Look at Korgan, he is a great axe-thrower and is dealing out plenty of damage. With axes you don't have to listen to the incredibly annoying "this weapon has no effect" all the time. But if you now must have a thief with a short bow, then I suggest you choose berserker/thief. With 'berserk' you are immune to maze, hold, confusion etc. It is very good to have sometimes.