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Old 03-02-2003, 07:31 PM   #11
johnny
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That kinda reminds of Rubin Carter. If they let them go after all these years, they lose face. It's almost like admitting they made a mistake. Some people have a real problem with that. Especially if they are rednecks who arrested innocent black people, or the wrong black people. To them it doesn't matter, as long as they are black, they're guilty.

I'm not saying that's the case here, but it sure sounds like it. And it wouldn't be the first time something like that happened, that's why i brought up Rubin Carter.
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Old 03-02-2003, 07:40 PM   #12
The Hierophant
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Quote:
Originally posted by Charlie:


I'm not knocking the US judicial system per se...
But how can travesties of justice on this scale happen in a country as advanced as the USA?

Well, quite simply, the USA as a whole isn't all that 'advanced'. Some areas are highly industrialized, with complex judicial systems and a genuine level of cultural refinement. Others are essentially still living in the 1800s, with all of the old hatreds and primitive methods of social control (ie: fear, segregation, privilege). Being way out in the backwaters allows for some outrageous travesties of justice, as you have pointed out. Out of sight, out of mind.
But this isn't exclusive to the USA of course, it's like this the world over. Let bigots reign unchecked and you end up with a society centred around bigotry. Funny that.
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Old 03-02-2003, 08:36 PM   #13
Chewbacca
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Join Date: July 18, 2001
Location: America, On The Beautiful Earth
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Here is another mistrial of justice...A Jury is demanding a new trial and has publicly apologized to a city-sanctioned medical pot grower they convicted for drug dealing. The feds blocked any mentioning to the jury that the convicted man was a city-sanctioned and authorized grower and distributor because the reasons why he was growing and selling are irrelevant to federal law.

http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=5548

Quote:
Jurors In Rosenthal Case Reject Their Own Verdict; Demand New Trial For City-Sanctioned Medical Pot Provider

February 6, 2003 - Oakland, CA, USA

"I helped send a man to prison who doesn't belong there," Juror Laments

Oakland, CA: Many of the jurors who convicted noted marijuana author and cultivation expert Ed Rosenthal are now protesting their verdict and demanding he receive a new trial. On Tuesday, jurors held a press conference to condemn their verdict, and announce that they would have acquitted Rosenthal had the judge allowed him to explain that he was authorized by the City of Oakland to grow medical marijuana under state law.

Throughout Rosenthal’s trial, federal Judge Charles Breyer had prohibited the jury from considering any evidence pertaining to medical marijuana or Proposition 215, ruling, "The purpose for which the marijuana was grown is not a defense and is irrelevant." Jurors maintain that they were unaware of the context of Rosenthal's activities until after the trial.

In a prepared statement presented Tuesday on behalf of eight of the 14 sitting jurors, foreman Charles Sackett III said, "I fail to understand how evidence and testimony that is pertinent, imperative and representative to state government policy, as well as doctor and patient rights, and indeed your own family, are irrelevant to this case."

In a follow up editorial published by the San Jose Mercury News, juror Marney Craig wrote: "Last week, I did something so profoundly wrong that it will haunt me for the rest of my life. I helped send a man to prison who doesn't belong there. ... This is insane. ... All Ed Rosenthal did was grow some plants, but he wasn't allowed to tell us why."

San Francisco District Attorney Terence Hallinan called the jurors' demand for a new trial unprecedented. "I don't know if ever before in history have the majority of jurors held a press conference to say they were misled and misunderstood what they were doing when they rendered a guilty verdict."

NORML Executive Director Keith Stroup - who was in San Francisco last week to testify as a character witness on behalf of Rosenthal, but barred by Judge Breyer from participating - agreed. "This has been an extraordinary case in several ways, from the enormous outpouring of public support in California and across the country for the defendant, to the reaction of the jurors when they realized what they had inadvertently done," Stroup said. "Ed Rosenthal has shown great personal courage throughout this ordeal, even as he faces the likelihood of a long prison sentence. We must not let this decision stand."

Rosenthal faces five to 85 years in prison for marijuana cultivation. Judge Breyer ruled earlier this week that Rosenthal may remain free on bail until his sentencing, scheduled for June 4.
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Old 03-03-2003, 02:51 AM   #14
sageridder
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Join Date: March 28, 2001
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It isn't a suprise that the feds would break the law to go after Ed Rosenthal, they would assuredly consider it a long time comming.He was quit a large figure in the 60's and 70's mentioned in rolling stone, the vilage voice,and similar mags.He is well known for authoring and co-authoring many top quality books on how to grow and use pot and mushrooms and possibly some topics I don't own.He was a huge advocate of people using moderation and growing thier own to avoid dealers.It's more than obvious that this misuse of power was to nail a guy they have been after for 30 years.Kinda vindictive huh.
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Old 03-03-2003, 09:27 AM   #15
MagiK
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Not saying that something bad didn't happen, but I would like to see a less.....biased source for the story. Those websites are somewhat suspect. Sorry.

Edit: On a side note, nice to see someone from outside the USA taking an interest. [img]smile.gif[/img]


[ 03-03-2003, 09:28 AM: Message edited by: MagiK ]
 
Old 03-03-2003, 09:37 AM   #16
Timber Loftis
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Well, I know the story, so I didn't read very far on this particular incarnation of it, MagiK. But no matter how you spin it, here's the situation:

1. Dirty Cop +
2. Many many many convictions are 2 witnesses - the accused and the officer. Officer says he had drugs, witness says he didn't. Put an officer in front of a jury and they simply smile and believe what he says.

I personally have seen my wife write appeals where there were 2 "criminals," each saying the drugs were planted, and only one officer with his almighty "word." Now, here's the worst part: there were other officers at the scene but only one bothered to show up and testify in court. One officer v. 2 accused + only the officers word = conviction, conviction affirmed, case closed.

My wife was writing for the State, BTW, and I love to see her get a "W," but the system seems troubled at base (she did NOT do the original trial, only the appeal).

And, don't get me wrong, the criminals' side of the story was not ironclad. It really was a toss up. But, what about "beyond all reasonable doubt." Toss-ups go to the defendant - by legal definition of "beyond all reasonable doubt." Yeah, right. In theory. But juries place the credibility of an officer at the tip-top of the scale.

It's a recipe for disaster.
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Old 03-03-2003, 09:39 AM   #17
Harkoliar
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Join Date: March 21, 2001
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Quote:
stated in the last paragraph of the article
----------------------------------------------
Interestingly, the key leaders in question – the county sheriff and the district attorney – have gone deathly quiet. Tom Coleman has been equally reticent about addressing the mounting accusations of misconduct against him. For all the kudos attached to his Lawman of the Year award, he lost his job as a narcotics investigator in Tulia. He tried a similar line of work in another part of Texas, but got fired for alleged sexual misconduct with a fellow agent. He is now believed to be working in Waxahachie, outside Dallas, as an investigator for a private credit institution.
good for what happened to them... it may sound like in the movies but still in real life?? it makes me sick on how people can do such things.
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Old 03-03-2003, 09:53 AM   #18
MagiK
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Thanks for the info TL, I agree it is totally disgusting to see this kind of thing. I cannot believe though that it is the rule and not the exception. I think it is far safer to accept the law officers word over most suspects though. I cannot imagine that too many truely innocent citizens are being harassed and falsely accused by law officers...I cartainly know I never have been, nor has anyone I have been aquainted with ever mentioned being falsly accused of any crime other than speeding...in which cases I have been....skeptical... of my friends claims.

They should take this cop and roast him slowly over an open fire....in my opinion, law enforcement and public officials should be held to higher standards and suffer more severely for disgressions than normal people.
 
Old 03-04-2003, 02:54 AM   #19
Jay&SilentBob
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I've heard about similar cases before, and more often then not they are never resolved and the innocent in the matter always suffer. I would like to see if anyone on this forum lives around this general area, or similar areas and what the racial and politcal climates are like. Enlighten me.
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Old 03-04-2003, 09:41 AM   #20
Wulfere
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Location: Lincoln, Nebraska USA
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I think the point to make is that no system is perfect. If it were, we wouldn't be talking about it. I am not saying that terrible things don't happen. It shouldn't be this way, but it is. We have to try am make it better.

The business about people willing to give up some of there rights is scarey. I know that some will always be so afraid of (insert appropraite scarey thing here) that they will give up their rights for feeling safe, but they would give up our rights too! Which is why it is sooo important to get out and vote!

The only thing I know about the Property Forefiture Laws is what I have read in a Dean Koontz interview for the book "Dark Rivers of the Heart". Anyway, Timber Loftis could probably let me know if any of this is true of if it was just hyperboli from Koontz. As I understand it from that....

You don't have to know that your property was used for the illegal act.
You receive a hearing 10 days after the siezure, but the Feds usually pick the Judge. Otherwise you have to be found Not-Guity at the trial to get the forefiture overturned.
They don't have to charge you with a crime. Just link a crime to your property.
If you aren't charged with a crime you can't prove you are innocent and therefore will never get your property back unless you sue the government. Which would take years and cost more than the property you lost most likely.


The scariest thing is that these laws were intended to be used less that a thousand times a year. Bush sr used them somewhere around 50,000 times and Clinton even more. The laws have been expanded to more than 250 different crimes
and are being expanded to cover more and more crimes.
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