were all dead

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: MagiK, for good or ill our government's meddlings in the middle east has resulted in at least one known thing for the US: cheaper oil than anywhere else in the world. Some notable price comparrisons: 1. Bahams: $2.85/gallon 2. UK (doing math from pounds per liter): @ $3.50/gallon 3. Canada (which has much more national oil in reserve than US): $2.00/gallon 4. Iran (which processes the majority of the world's oil): $6.00/gallon. 5. Chicago (2 days ago, rich suburb area): $1.62/gallon 6. Kentuckiana (1 month ago - holiday gouge season): $1.32/gallon I am always a true believer in "you should pay for what you take." And, if you look at the damage to the environment per unit of gasoline burned, and also factor in the benefit gained (in travel or production) per unit of gasoline burned, we simply pay too little for it in the states. True, I like cheap gas, too, and will stop and fill up when I notice prices are unusually low. However, it is an unfair advantage our nation has that is proped up by years of toiled negotiations with Saudis, Kuwaitis, Iranians, etc. Not asking anyone to raise my gas bill - just stating a truth.

Errr excuse me..but last I heard we are presently taking oil from places where no one ever lived....at least not since the dinosaurs crapped out....the deserts in the middle east are not being devastated by the drilling for oil..they are still there.....the lands in venezuala were not being used for much of anything and not "worth" much of anything until oil was discovered....all in all I think the benefits reaped by the use of natural resources outstrips the damage being done...of course Im Human centric biased...I think medical services, cheap energy, electric light, all have contributed to the health and wealth of human kind....sorry of a few acres of sod gets displaced or a few square miles of sand gets disturbed...the price is being paid, yes we have cheaper energy than some....errr is Kentuckianna really a place?

Im sorry I just do not agree that our usage of the resources is ruining the planet. The alaska pipeline was supposed to have ended wildlife as we know it throughout alaska...last time I was there...there is still wildlife...all around the pipeline too....amazing how none of the doom and gloom is ever right and all it does is manage to line the pockets of econuts with the dollars scammed off the rich hollywood stars and nutjobs...

All of this is just my opinion of course your mileage may vary [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Timber Loftis]

MagiK, taking the oil out of the sand is not the only problem.

For instance, did you know that there is a cleanup underway off the coast of Spain of an oil spill that makes the Exxon Valdez look like kids stuff? Like Exxon Valdez, it will take years and cost BILLIONS. Plus, under the tanker convention, countries must maintain insurance for these things - meaning we can look forward to a few ins. co's going bankrupt as a side effect - which will certainly (as with Exxon Valdez) leave some insured people damaged without remedy. BTW, no one will be liable to those people, as the same tanker convention that makes insurance mandatory also absolves an insured transporter from liability.

Second for instance, what about when this dinosaur goo we're dependent on runs out? Sorry, but we don't know exactly how much is in the earth, despite our best efforts to guesstimate it. Doesn't the pragmatic conservative in you say to hold off on using your resources too soon?

Third, mine was a purely economic assessment. For the value you get from 1 gallon of gasoline, we pay less, an unfair amount less, than other countries. Again, this point needs no disastrous environmental harm to justify it, it consists of 2 simple variables: (1) the VALUE of the gas, i.e. what good it can do, (2) the known harm of burning it, including what very little bit of environmental harm occurs per unit.

Finally, Kentuckiana is what the region around Louisville and Cincinnati calls itself - and those were the gas prices I saw while travelling through the region.

[/)eathKiller]

the world will end on december 23rd 2003 (acoording to the mayans, Egyptians, Nostradameouse, and many cults) Two of God's numbers in a row which result in 87.0865652 an estimated scientific number of the number of human beings who are alive at this moment and the number of cells in the human brain...

Originally posted by /)eathKiller: the world will end on december 23rd 2003 (acoording to the mayans, Egyptians, Nostradameouse, and many cults) Two of God's numbers in a row which result in 87.0865652 an estimated scientific number of the number of human beings who are alive at this moment and the number of cells in the human brain...

If you really believe that feel free to leave all your worldly goods to me the day before..Ill take ownership the evening before so you can prepare yourself for eternity

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: MagiK, taking the oil out of the sand is not the only problem. For instance, did you know that there is a cleanup underway off the coast of Spain of an oil spill that makes the Exxon Valdez look like kids stuff? Like Exxon Valdez, it will take years and cost BILLIONS. Plus, under the tanker convention, countries must maintain insurance for these things - meaning we can look forward to a few ins. co's going bankrupt as a side effect - which will certainly (as with Exxon Valdez) leave some insured people damaged without remedy. BTW, no one will be liable to those people, as the same tanker convention that makes insurance mandatory also absolves an insured transporter from liability. Second for instance, what about when this dinosaur goo we're dependent on runs out? Sorry, but we don't know exactly how much is in the earth, despite our best efforts to guesstimate it. Doesn't the pragmatic conservative in you say to hold off on using your resources too soon? Third, mine was a purely economic assessment. For the value you get from 1 gallon of gasoline, we pay less, an unfair amount less, than other countries. Again, this point needs no disastrous environmental harm to justify it, it consists of 2 simple variables: (1) the VALUE of the gas, i.e. what good it can do, (2) the known harm of burning it, including what very little bit of environmental harm occurs per unit. Finally, Kentuckiana is what the region around Louisville and Cincinnati calls itself - and those were the gas prices I saw while travelling through the region.

I would point out that my home state of Pennsylvania..one of the first places in the country found tohave significant oil depostis saw those deposits recoverd with no thought to environmentalism, or conservation...and now less than 50 years after the last major wells closed down...you can't even tell there ever were wells....I think the environement will survive us drilling for other domestic sources as well. Insurance companies I have no sympathy for....but Im out of time...Ill try to continue later.

[ 12-30-2002, 04:38 PM: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[Elif Godson]

COCKROACH'S

[Dreamer128]

Either intolerance, or too much tolerance
Edit: add indifference to that list, a huge problem these days...

[ 12-30-2002, 05:02 PM: Message edited by: Dreamer128 ]

[Sir Krustin]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Upon further reflection, I have an "end to humanity" to postulate: I think that once our current civilzation descends into the absolute horrors of debauchery we will, with our own perverse mental forces working in concert, bring about a rift in the warp, sucking us all into the eternal void and unleashing the horrors of Tzeentch, Slaanesh, Nurgle, and Khorn upon the multiverse as never seen before.

Hmm, a warhammer fan!

[Sir Krustin]

Originally posted by Timber Loftis: Second for instance, what about when this dinosaur goo we're dependent on runs out? Sorry, but we don't know exactly how much is in the earth, despite our best efforts to guesstimate it. Doesn't the pragmatic conservative in you say to hold off on using your resources too soon?

Interesting comment on this. In the seventies, when the so-called energy crisis was at it's height, scientists estimated we had 40 years supply of oil left. Today? We have over 400 years supply left!.

The reasons are many: including more efficient vehicles, better drilling and extraction techniques. The point is, there is no proof that when the time comes, we won't have a solution already in place.

[Elif Godson]

I still say that COCKROACH'S will rule the world and be the death of us