Should you smack your children?

Originally posted by AzureWolf: quote: Originally posted by MagiK: I will also say that anyone who does not have children or if you are still a minor yourself, your opinion on this whole issue is useless. Untill you personally are responsible for bringing a life into this world and ensuring they are able to survive and flourish long after you are gone, you really don't have a clue. If you are a minor and have brought a child into the world, that just indicates that you do not have the wisdom to be raising a child in the first place.

I would like to think that my opinion is worth something. My sister I have practically raised her as if I were her father since she was born as her real father went back to America to absolve himself of responsibility to her. It may not be as valid maybe as a fathers but none the less I have raised this child as I would my own, my mother working long hours 6 days a week didnt exactly leave her bright and full of energy to cook and take care of my sister when she was home so I got left to do a lot of that. I never ONCE had to touch a hair on her head at anytime. She is now one of the most polite well mannered children you are ever likely to meet, and I loved every minute of it. So I may be only 18 but my opinion is worth something.[/QUOTE]Your opinion, like everyone else's, is definitely worth something. MagiK has a little defense mechanism that kicks in when he's opinionating: he usually tries to find some way to render all conflicting opinions moot. He wouldn't have to do that if he had some confidence in his knowledge, but he seems to feel that he's often on shaky ground.

[ 05-16-2002, 12:10 PM: Message edited by: Absynthe ]

[Catalina]

@johnny: I get your point, yes, but I kind of agree a bit with Sazerac on this. Apparently the boy was disturbed in some kind of way, and this is a very special case, which probably requiers a bit more from the parents than sleeping with the door locked.. Do you know now what the childs intention was? I'm asking because I'm curios of the childs behaviour, not to discuss how to punish him. And of course I agree on that he had to be corrected in some way, I'm not ALL peace and love.. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Catalina]

Melusine- I agree! My thoughts exactly. And yes, I'm a she [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Melusine]

Originally posted by Catalina: Melusine- I agree! My thoughts exactly. And yes, I'm a she [img]smile.gif[/img]

Nice to meet you [img]smile.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/happywave.gif[/img]

I agree with your post above: sleeping with a lock on the door really isn't going to solve anything: if the child is really So dangerous that the parents aren't safe, then you need a hell of a lot more than a lock on the door (such as therapy for the child and finding out how an 8year old could become that way - and don't tell me 'it just happened'). If on the other hand the child was confused (he's still very young - there could be many reasons apart from harmful intentions) then they should try to help the kid, not lock him out of their bedroom. When I was that age and I had a bad dream, I was grateful that I could go into my parents' room if I was scared. Now obviously I didn't walk around carrying big knives (the question remains how an 8 year old could get his hands on a knife of that size) but from the story, we can't find out WHY the boy did that and if he's truly dangerous.

[Arnabas]

I can only think of a few times when I was actually hit. Usually the thought of getting a smack from that wooden spoon was enough to keep me in line. I grew up thoughtful, respectful and basically "good" (I hope), because I feared the punishment for being bad. However...
Who's to say I wouldn't have grown up just as good WITHOUT physical punishment? And perhaps I would have been closer to my folks without having that fear factor between us. I fully support the notion of training through positive reinforcement rather than punishment. Reward your kids for doing good things instead of punishing them for the bad things (and no, don't read into that that a child must never be punished)
As for time-outs, 90% of the time people don't use them properly, so of course many people will say they don't work. They DO work, but you have to do it properly, consistantly and repeatedly. Many parent's today want a "quick fix" for their kids behaviour. That doesn't exist. Time and patience are the key.

[johnny]

melusine, the boy is 8 years old, i'm sure by that age he knows his way around in the kitchen, don't you think ? The guy told my brother that he had a really weird look in his eyes that night and just didn't say a word. Remember that nothing like this ever happened before and there were no signs either that the boy was unhappy in whatever way.

[johnny]

Originally posted by Catalina: @johnny: I get your point, yes, but I kind of agree a bit with Sazerac on this. Apparently the boy was disturbed in some kind of way, and this is a very special case, which probably requiers a bit more from the parents than sleeping with the door locked.. Do you know now what the childs intention was? I'm asking because I'm curios of the childs behaviour, not to discuss how to punish him. And of course I agree on that he had to be corrected in some way, I'm not ALL peace and love.. [img]smile.gif[/img]

all i know at this point is that the parents and the child hardly ever communicate anymore, i guess the parents got afraid of him in a way, and of course that's not good. I don't know if the boy gets treatment in any way, i'd have to ask my brother, he knows that family better than i do. Maybe i kinda overreacted with saying i would kick the living shit out of him, but that was the first thing that came to my mind, i'm just glad it didn't happen to me. Sorry i called you "dude" catalina, i do that all the time. I know now that you're a girl/woman so that won't happen again. lol

[Cerek the Barbaric]

I've seen both sides of this issue in practice, and I can tell you from experience that NOT SPANKING a child simply DOES NOT work in most cases.

My mother is an office manager for a Mental Health Counseling Center. NONE of the counselors believe in "physical punishment". The result? Their kids were some of the most uncontrollable little hellions I ever met. And it only became worse when they became teenagers. They were openly disrespectful to their parents and ignored any "warnings" received for their behavior. They did what they damn well pleased and their parents were powerless to prevent it.

Like Magik said, pain is one of the most effective teaching methods. I also completely disagree that "spanking" is the same as "violence". A pop on the butt (even 2 or 3) is not the same as slapping, kicking, or punching the child.

I have two small boys myself (and will soon have a third). I've spanked both of them several times for various offenses. I admit that it was sometimes done in anger and I regretted losing my temper. However, there are times when it's been necessary to let my kids know just HOW angry I was over their behavior. I will agree that spanking isn't the ONLY effective punishment, and sometimes it isn't the BEST punishment. Again, Magik is correct that once the child knows the parent WILL spank them, the need for spanking becomes much smaller. As they get older, taking away privileges is very effective (at least so far). My children also know that their punishment will be less severe if they tell me the truth. If one of them breaks something, but admits to it, I may not punish them at all (it depends on what they were doing when it got broken).

But there are some behaviors that DO require physical punishment. My second child is very bad to hit, pinch, and even bite when he gets angry. Spanking only makes him madder, but if I pinch him back, he realizes how painful it is and that is often the only way to stop that behavior. Same with biting. When he tries to hit or kick me, I simply grab his arm or leg and hold it. He will invariably swing with the other arm, which I also grab. Now he is "tied up" and can't do anything. He gets mad and frustrated, but realizes that further kicking or hitting isn't going to work either.

I will disagree with Magik on one point, and that is the value of everyone's opinion. If you are an adult, but don't have kids...the only thing I can say is that you really can't say what you would do until you are raising a child. I SWORE my kids would NEVER sleep in my bed (unless they were having a nightmare or something similar). Guess what?? You'll be surprised at how quickly you do something you swore you never would.

For the younger members, I would say that your opinion is actually more valid, since there is a good chance you are still subject to whatever discipline measures your parents choose. It's far easier for you to say what does or does not work to change your behavior. Once again, though, until you're grown and have kids of your own, you really can't say HOW you would react with any certainty.

Spanking shouldn't be the ONLY punishment, and it should be used sparingly at best. But there are times when it is FAR more effective than Time Outs, revoked privileges, or sitting in the corner. It just depends on the situation and the child involved.

As Sazerac said, the best answer lies somewhere in the middle.

Originally posted by Catalina: @MagiK: What if someone else smacks your child? A school-teacher, neighbour etc, with the same believe and intensions as yourself. Is that then wrong?

Catalina, if a stranger hits my kid, Im going to take them out.
If as is the case with my kids, I know the teacher, and I know and approve of the values of the people running the school (I do) I fully approve of corporal punishment administered by the principal at the request of the teacher who had my son misbehave....this would happen exactly once and the reason is, the public humiliation of having been so bad as to require this treatment at school being one factor the other being the god awful punishment he would face upon getting home.
\
Don't go off on a fantasy rant about well what if the teacher hit him for no reason. This may happen one in a billion times but isn't part of the "real" world. at least not my world.

Originally posted by AzureWolf: quote: Originally posted by MagiK: I will also say that anyone who does not have children or if you are still a minor yourself, your opinion on this whole issue is useless. Untill you personally are responsible for bringing a life into this world and ensuring they are able to survive and flourish long after you are gone, you really don't have a clue. If you are a minor and have brought a child into the world, that just indicates that you do not have the wisdom to be raising a child in the first place.

I would like to think that my opinion is worth something. My sister I have practically raised her as if I were her father since she was born as her real father went back to America to absolve himself of responsibility to her. It may not be as valid maybe as a fathers but none the less I have raised this child as I would my own, my mother working long hours 6 days a week didnt exactly leave her bright and full of energy to cook and take care of my sister when she was home so I got left to do a lot of that. I never ONCE had to touch a hair on her head at anytime. She is now one of the most polite well mannered children you are ever likely to meet, and I loved every minute of it. So I may be only 18 but my opinion is worth something.[/QUOTE]Im sorry to hear about your less than ideal situation Azure. You may have a better than average idea of being a paerent but untill you do the real deal, Im not going to put much weight behind your opinion....I will admit and it should have been apparent that I did make a grand and sweeping generalization in my first comment on this...it is still what I ment though. There are kids who have to grow up before their time, but the fact that they learned to survive does not mean they gained the wisdom to raise a child...even if they are raising one by proxy.