Barbarian-Thief build

[Zaleukos]

Being a very casual player I like to be able to hold my own in melee and have played barb a lot. Now I'm trying out a Barbarian-thief (I hate having to rely on henchmen for thieving. Barb will be the main class, but every fourth level up or so will go to thief. I figure that if skill points are saved properly and I level up in the right order there is no diff in normal thieving abilities between a lvl 4 thief and a barb3-thief1. Melee abilities wont suffer a lot and a Barb can use the medium armor that caps dex bonus at 4 (or a light armor).

Is there anything I should consider when distributing stat points or any feats worth looking out for? I've put dex at 16 and will use the first two extra points to increase dex to 18. Is that wise or should I let dex stay at a lower value like 14?

[Zink Whistlefly]

My current character is also a Rogue/Barbarian and is working surprisingly well. Things to be aware of with this build however are:

• Race - unless you're one of Half-Elf, Human, Halfling or Half-orc you will incur an XP penalty if you don't keep the classes close together
• Keeping dex at 14 and using the heavier-medium armours such as chain mail will really hurt your thieving abilities, due to the lower dex bonus and -5 penalty from the armour. Best to keep it between 16-18 and use scale mail or a chain shirt to get the lower -2 armour check penalty

As to which is better out of high barbarian/low rogue vs low barbarian/high rogue depends entirely on your playing style. A few thoughts:

Personally, I'm taking just a couple of barbarian levels and going straight rogue from there (maybe will take some shadow dancer levels later on too). The lower barbarian/higher level rogue build has several advantages - you get the speed boost and a rage ability which you can activate in more difficult fights (resting is your friend!) as well as the bonus armour/shield/weapon feats which is a nice boost already (allows the thief to use longbows etc). Concentrating more on rogue from then on provides skill points, skill points and more skill points (you can never have enough!) which allows you to pump pretty much everything up. When taking the barbarian levels you can then concentrate on discipline and taunt which are both not rogue primary skills. Use magical device and tumble should always be jacked up, and then the stealth/locks/trap/conversation skills with any reserve points. The main advantages of going this way is the vastly higher sneak attack damage. Using something like a long bow, you can hide, strike for bonus damage, run away (you are 10% faster after all) and then hide again, rinse and repeat. The more straight barbarian build would be much stronger up front but lacking in the skill department.

[ 07-05-2005, 10:09 AM: Message edited by: Zink Whistlefly ]

[robertthebard]

Gentlemen...This is a very straight forward build, but you both have the wrong idea. The better thing is to yes, pump dex up, but you pump it way up, I mean way up, like 25. Set your str around 14, int at or above 13. Don't try to put dex at 25 out of the gate, start it at 16. Distribute the rest of your starting stat points where they may do the most good, but you should have no stat less than 10, most times, I have them all based at 12.
For armor, you will want light armor, nothing heavier than studded leather, and if you pump enough points into UMD, you'll soon be wanting to use monk's robes, all the better, no dex bonus restrictions. For an initial melee combat boost, you may want to throw xp penalties to the wind and take 4 lvls of barb first, the thing with this build is to go with light weapons, and take the weapon finesse feat, and keep dex higher than str. This way, your attack bonuses are based on your dex, rather than str. After your first four lvls, take four rogue lvls, fire Tomi, hire Linu, and go to town...At this point, you will want to alternate back and forth between rogue and barbarian lvls, so that you are getting full xp, and you now have an effective fighter/mage, for all intents an purposes, if you keep your umd pumped up. You just can't memorize spells, have to buy them. This is one of the best ways to build a barb/rogue. Be sure to keep tumble up as well, as with light armor, high dex, you'll be able to reap the benefits of one point of dodge ac for every five ranks, plus your full dex bonus to ac, attacks, and to thieving skills that rely on dex. If you are using Hordes as well, you will also be able to take epic dodge, but not until after lvl 21, which will cause the first attack in every round to be evaded, it misses, no matter what. Nothing like watching a creature swing and swing, and it can't hit you.

[Zink Whistlefly]

Oh I completely agree my bardic friend - in fact my current Barb/Rogue has no stat below 10, with 14 STR, 16 DEX (will all subsequent points going there), and 14 INT. He naturally wears light armour and uses weapon finesse since that's the only really practical way to go with a rogue type class.

The point I was trying to make is how and when you take the barbarian levels is entirely suited to ones playing style. My current character is going to be 75% rogue, with just one or two levels of barb, and the rest going into Shadow Dancer. I've only chosen one barb level to give a much needed HP boost in the early stages (since rogues tend to be very fragile at the start). as well as providing a rage use, some bonus weapon proficiencies and the much needed movement boost. I prefer to keep my sneak attack and skills jacked up, rather than giving the character a stronger front line melee presence (he loves sneaking around and taking down the enemy using a series of hit and run tactics) which is why I'm not taking many barb levels. The method you've chosen would definately suite a well skilled tank type character, but I'm going all out on an extremely well skilled stealth specialist with a little bard candy thrown in for good measure [img]smile.gif[/img] .