Should USA atack Irak

[Calaethis Dragonsbane]

thats a loaded question! I have no love for Irak, but America shouldnt start another war! havent there been enough lives wasted already?! besides, I think whatshisface will just use human shields again, but I dont think Bush will care... I think he'll just bomb them anyway.

[johnny]

It's only a matter of time before countries like Irak, Iran, Syria, etc, are capable of using nucleair devices, and believe it, they will ! a lot of people will disagree with me on this one, but yes, the west SHOULD attack Irak, and this time it must be completely destroyed as a warning for others. Hurt them or sooner or later they WILL hurt you !

[Grojlach]

Originally posted by johnny: It's only a matter of time before countries like Irak, Iran, Syria, etc, are capable of using nucleair devices, and believe it, they will ! a lot of people will disagree with me on this one, but yes, the west SHOULD attack Irak, and this time it must be completely destroyed as a warning for others. Hurt them or sooner or later they WILL hurt you !

France has nuclear devices as well, and well, we all know the French can't be trusted and smell funny; besides, their accent is horrible. Maybe we should attack them as well...
Johnny, I suppose we'll just disagree on this point , but what's the use of bombing an entire nation back to the Stone Age? Chances you'll hit the few people who are a possible threat in a hypothetical situations with a large number of "if"'s are very slim, chances something like this will actually incite a full (nuclear?) war between the Middle East and the Western countries are much larger then. You can't just kill millions of people just to kill those few who "will hurt us!", I hope you realize that. Else I suggest we bomb any city in the world as well, just because there's a chance we'll also kill the few people posing a threat to others.

[ 07-06-2002, 07:22 AM: Message edited by: Grojlach ]

[johnny]

Originally posted by K T Ong: The Japanese in the 19th Century wanted the Americans to leave them alone. It was the Americans who forced the Japanese to open themselves up. Ask Commodore Perry.

What are you saying ? America invited Japan to bomb Pearl Harbour ? Do you realise how ridiculous that sounds ?

[johnny]

Grojlach, the normal people in the streets overthere hate us just as much as their leaders do, so in my point of view there aren't that many innocent people overthere. And you do know they are producing weapons of mass destruction, do you ! Pray they won't ever have the capability of launching nucleair missiles. Saddam once made a promise that no matter what, one day he'd wipe Israel of the map, you want to sit back and wait for that to happen ? And i'm not worried about French nukes, The French are not completely insane !

[Grojlach]

Originally posted by johnny: Grojlach, the normal people in the streets overthere hate us just as much as their leaders do, so in my point of view there aren't that many innocent people overthere.

Ahum. So anyone who lives in Europe or the US and hates the muslims are not innocent either? That's what I can indirectly conclude from your words... [img]tongue.gif[/img] And in that case, since so many of us hate them, they have as much right to bomb us all as we do.
Sorry johnny, your logic is a bit flawed.

Besides, just think for a moment about *why* they "hate" us... What could it be? I think a combination of Israel, America's meddlesomeness and a lot of propaganda. If the very same person who curses the Americans now in Bagdad would have lived in Amsterdam instead, I doubt he would have cursed or even felt any hate at all. They hate "us" because the media over there are biased and "we" are portrayed in a way they have no choice but hate "us" for what we are, just like some of "us" hate them because some of the media over here as just as biased and some of you almost declare us nuts for not bombing the heck out of them.
I see no good guys here, on either side. Heck, I'd almost go and support the underdog (the Middle-East) as that's what I usually do, if only because of the disturbing and misguided responses of many people in Western countries who really should know better. And yes, Bin Laden and his Al Quaida warriors have committed crimes against humanity and deserve to be dragged into court and be punished, but just because they're muslim as well doesn't mean the entire muslim community sides with them.

[ 07-06-2002, 07:48 AM: Message edited by: Grojlach ]

[Ar-Cunin]

Originally posted by johnny: quote: Originally posted by K T Ong: The Japanese in the 19th Century wanted the Americans to leave them alone. It was the Americans who forced the Japanese to open themselves up. Ask Commodore Perry.

What are you saying ? America invited Japan to bomb Pearl Harbour ? Do you realise how ridiculous that sounds ?[/QUOTE]Invite - no
provoke - closer to the target (f.x. trade embargo)

And Perry was from 1854(?)

[johnny]

Grojlach, the main reason they hate us is the way we live our lives, it's decadent in their opinion, plus we don't bow down to Allah and believe in other gods or don't believe at all.

[Grojlach]

Originally posted by johnny: Grojlach, the main reason they hate us is the way we live our lives, it's decadent in their opinion, plus we don't bow down to Allah and believe in other gods or don't believe at all.

So? They probably don't know any better... The only people from Europe and the US they've ever seen were probably soldiers, diplomats or (rarely and unlikely, yet possible) salesmen. And combined with the huge cultural differences I can see where their paranoia or even hate against "us" is coming from...
People from those countries who have moved to a Western country and who have acclimatized over there probably wouldn't share their beliefs. While they probably used to be persons with a similar hate and paranoia against "us" when he still lived in their old country.
And once again, just like they won't trust us completely, in the same manner people over here won't trust them either; while they're all normal people like you and me, maybe with a different religion and perspective, but having a different perspective does not make them evil. Give them time to get used to "us", and let's take some time ourselves to get used to "them". [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 07-06-2002, 08:13 AM: Message edited by: Grojlach ]

[johnny]

I respect your opinion on this Grojlach, but i don't think we'll ever agree on this. I'm from the old school, i think they're out to get us, and we should take a giant dump on them before they ever get the chance. Just my opinion !