Little bit of Philosophical type of thing - Memories

[slicer15]

I'm sorry if this is included in the recent ban on debates...I assume it's just for religious issues...I just needed to get this off my chest.

Over the last few, oh....months/year I've noticed that, after reading certain books (Artemis Fowl) and playing certain games (KotOR) that your memories and experiences make you who you are. I mean, if you got your memories wiped the person you were is dead. Gone. Never to return depending on the completeness of the wipe. As you grow up the experiences you record and develop from are what develops your character, right? I mean, if you clone someone that had a loving, caring childhood and brought them up in an uncaring, cold family the clone would undoubtedly turn out to be a different person, in character and everything else. Let me explain what drew my attention in Artemis Fowl...WARNING - BOOK PLOTLINE SPOILER!!
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Basically over the course of three books, Artemis Fowl is an ingenious criminal mastermind but his character changes during the course of the story, as he becomes a better person as a whole. However at the end of the last book he gets his memory wiped of all that transpired over the course of the previous two books, and he returns to being the criminal mastermind, plotting ways of making money, only ever making money.

Now this has shaken me more than little. I mean, you are your memories (well, and experiences, whatever records them in your brain). You can kill a person just as effectively as shooting them by wiping their memory. They won't be the same person as before. In fact, it will be almost like they develop anew, by living life again and learning from experience.

One thing that comforts me is that there most likely is still one single element within you that makes you unique, that determines how you react from experiences and deal with them. So you won't be a completely new person if you lose all the information you've recorded from experience because there is a little flicker of your character, your individuality. A good-natured person will most likely always remain a good-natured person...but that can be debatable if even that is determined by social, physical and mental development.

Sorry about this, I just felt I needed to get this off my chest and written somewhere...if you've sifted and read through my wad of text I appreciate it, even if you don't post your thoughts. Anyways, once again, if the mods find this inappropriate please let me know and delete it...but I had to get this down somewhere. Thank you. [img]smile.gif[/img]

[Dron_Cah]

well, i seem to agree. I have a friend who was recently in a very serious car accident. From this accident, he suffered some forms of brain damage. (Btw, he's ok, now) After he returned to school, I noticed that he acted very differently. My friend, for now, has forgotten almost everything from the last 4 months before the wreck, or so. He is slowly regaining things, but there is something else. He is certainly slower now, his wit being blunted in some form, with his humor being very... well, immature. Things seem so simple to him, now, he is much like a child. I'm not sure if he will come to be how he was before, but i don't really think so. I'm glad to have my friend back, but I don't think he'll ever be the "old" Jonny again. Hopefully he grows out of the bad Michael Jackson jokes, soon!

My 2 cents, anyways. (wonder where the extra cent DOES go??)

[slicer15]

Oh, I'm sorry to hear about your friend, but I'm glad he's okay. Yeah, better back a little different than at all, huh? Your brain seems to be so sensitive...with technology and human advancement the old-style skull protection doesn't exactly hold up very well...though it does help.

[T/-/alali]

Actually this is scientific fact. Envirernment makes up much of your behaviors, tastes, ect. For example, can you imagine how much your life would be different if you never met the person/thing that got you to use the computer, or play your first video game?

[LennonCook]

Artemis' memory wasn't completly wiped - I think it was Foaly who mentioned that if that were to happen, Arty would loose two years of emotional growth. It was said that all that was removed was the events that had to do with the People. His mind would develope memories to fit in the blank spaces, in time, and so Artemis, Butler, and Julia would still be the same people. Right through, Artemis was still a criminal mastermind - if he didn't have that streak still in him, he would not have thought of the contact lenses, nor of the disc he gave to Mulch Diggims. So in that context, the loss of memory didn't affect him much at all. But, as was mentioned in the book, a full wipe of what has happened in a certain amount of time would lead to a completely different person.

[spydar]

slicer, I've had those exact same thoughts (well not about the book, which I've never heard of but sounds interesting, but on memory loss). this is very much connected with the nature vs nurture debate. the argument over whether a person's behaviour and personality is determined by their environment or their genes. personally I think it's a combination of both, but that a person who has lost their memory (or a clone of a person) will never be exactly the same cause you can't duplicate their life experiences.

[slicer15]

Originally posted by LennonCook: Artemis' memory wasn't completly wiped - I think it was Foaly who mentioned that if that were to happen, Arty would loose two years of emotional growth. It was said that all that was removed was the events that had to do with the People. His mind would develope memories to fit in the blank spaces, in time, and so Artemis, Butler, and Julia would still be the same people. Right through, Artemis was still a criminal mastermind - if he didn't have that streak still in him, he would not have thought of the contact lenses, nor of the disc he gave to Mulch Diggims. So in that context, the loss of memory didn't affect him much at all. But, as was mentioned in the book, a full wipe of what has happened in a certain amount of time would lead to a completely different person.

Well, yeah, but he ended up as a better person. He actually felt guilty about bad things and developed a better character. He cared about his mother and father etc. After the wipe his diary entry clearly shows he thinks his father's idea of going legal is nonsense and he would unleash his most ingenious plans yet of making more money...it clearly reveals that he no longer cares about his parents anymore and he's become the old Artemis again.

And I know his memory wasn't completely wiped, I meant it was erased with the parts detailing about the sprites...it was mentioned that there was a slim chance that Artemis would lose the emotional development but they didn't think it was likely...yet it happened. Still an excellent trilogy though.