best characters in the long run?

Jorgenish · 11-08-2001, 05:01 PM

ive been playing shadows of amn for a while now..and got really hooked on it so now i bought bg1+TOSC and icewind dale..and i plan on making a character to push through all games.. so my question is..if a mage loses all his spells going from one game to another..is it better to play a fighter character? i am thinking on making a cleric..cause i like the combo of a tank with healing spells.. otherwise id go for a mage.
another thing..i never quite understood the advantage of a dual class compared to a multi class character?

SecretMaster · 11-08-2001, 05:25 PM

Well, its really your choice. Just know this, as all of the BG series proggresses, the mage becomes the strongest, and the fighter the weakest. The advantage of mult-class is to have to classes at once, like a fighter/thief. They have the abilities of a fighter and a thief, but they have certain restrictions. You also get to a lower level multi-classed. Dual classing is similar, but for dual classing, you switch to that class permanatley. You must be a human, and have the required stats to dual class. Also, try a thief, you barely find a good thief in SoA, and u need one for all of SoA and ToB

Lord Brass · 11-08-2001, 06:09 PM

Having just started SoA, I've been humming and harring about character continuation for several days now. Completing BG/TotSC with a F/MU/C, my levels were 6/6/6 (scary or what) so I've been rather annoyed about the changeover. I wouldn't mind so much, but that character has been a slow, but valuable member of the team all the way throughout.

Mages do get stronger definitely, though they die if a fighter gets up close (and Arrows of Translocation will do it). Really, it's a matter of personal choice; every character has their advantages and disadvantages. A good thief is always required no matter what game you play (some early IWD is lethal) and multi's can be very versatile. Still, even after Imoen makes her miraculous conversion to one of Mystra's disciples, she's still a proficient thief. That alone is enough to annoy a saint, quite frankly. Think about the number of times you've used Imoen in her thief capacity. Then consider how long it would take for her to get those skills back. Without another light-fingered character on the books, you'd be up the proverbial river - more times than you'd care to remember.

Sorry, still ranting on about the changeover. Everyone you ask here Jorgenish will tell you a different class and their reasons for it. Just ask yourself "What do I like playing?" That's as good a start as any other. BTW what did use to complete SoA (I'm guessing that you have completed it)?

Jorgenish · 11-09-2001, 02:47 AM

Thanks for the replys guys.. [img]smile.gif[/img]
I am aware of the necessity of a thief searching out for traps..but i just hardly ever use em for much more..although in a tough fight i found that setting a special trap or two could harm an iron golem. Other than that i hardly ever use my thief for anything, and use them as missile support. its too risky to steal, and never tried backstabbing..arent you getting caught way up front with your thief if you do that?
i finished SoA with a mage (conjurer- i love the elemental spells), and i found out the hard way that it sucks to lose your familiar. He did kick ass later in the game tho.
I am currently planning on making a multiclass mage/cleric..
you did mention multi as Fighter/mage/cleric right?..does that enable you to wear armor? or is there any other advantage there? also you say that multi is slower..does the xp get split between the classes then? but since theres a xp gap.. its a good thing to be multi noh?
Other than that i like the clerics, but i was wondering if i could pair healing spells with the use of a twohand sword or a long bow?
im thinking ranger here, but they dont get so many healing spells do they?

Lord Arlion Majere · 11-09-2001, 08:26 AM

The best character in the long run...? thats realy difficult to decide....i say if you like spells choose an multi or mage class....if you like diablo, whit hack and slash.....try a warrior....

one thing to notice is that if you like the spes. class in bg2 you cant play bg1 and then go on to bg2....so you have to be the "pure" classes.....

In trance we trust [img]smile.gif[/img]

Lemernis · 11-09-2001, 12:02 PM

As noted above, only humans can dual class. So if you want a combination of classes for any race other than human, multiclassing is your only option. If you want to play a cleric-thief for example, that is available only to a gnome. Or if you want to create a dwarven fighter-cleric (advantages being higher con/regenerating ability and magic resistance), etc., then you have to live with the lower number of weapons profs than if you dual classed using a human.

The problem with a multiclass character is that in many cases weapons profs are limited to two *'s. In such cases it makes more sense to dual class.

Starting as a fighter and then dual classing at level 6 is a pretty good way to go. Because then you will have a generous allotment of weapons profs by the end of the game. And when you convert the character upon beginning BG2 you can have grandmastery (*****) in one weapon, and still have 4-5 profs to allocate., depending on what class you dual to and whether you max the level in ToSC for the new class. Or you can put ** into dual-wielding with high mastery (****) and mastery (***) in two weapons. Something like that. Some prefer to dual-wield because it gives better THACO.

Also, when you convert you may select any of the kits for your original fighter class.

As to what class to dual to... cleric, thief, or mage... that is a matter of personal taste...

I'm currently in a BG2/ToB MP game, still in it's very early stages, where I carried over a player from in BG1/Tales. I had dualed him as a fighter at level 6 to cleric. He maxed at level 8 as a cleric at the end of BG1. At the outset of BG2 I put ***** in war hammer, *** in flail, and ** in sword and shield syle. I figure he will pick up the flail of ages early on, and eventually get either the Runehammer or Crom Faeyr. Anyway, he will be able to rumble in melee, especially buffed up on Holy Might, Righteous Magic, etc. And of course as a cleric he will continue on and become as powerful as he can get.

One of the players brought a pure thief from BG1 and after our first level-up will dual to mage. When he gets his thief skills back he will select the swashbuckler kit. And another player took a fighter from BG1 and dualed him to thief. He selected the Kensai kit and is dual-wielding katana and small sword.

SixOfSpades · 11-09-2001, 01:50 PM

A few notes about Multi- and Dual-classing. This is a very involved, complex subject, so don't expect a short post.
When dealing with EXP caps, it's true that Dual-classing makes the most use of whatever exp you can get, while Multi-classing leaves some experience just hanging off the end, not usable for anything. The upside of being Multi is that both of your classes are always gaining levels, and you're never stuck without any of your skills. Your THAC0 is better than a Dual, but your hitpoints are worse. Also, with a Multi, you're never more than 2-3 levels behind a pure-class character (at least, I don't think so).

What's right for you? Plan ahead. Plan WAY freaking ahead. For instance, I made a Human Thief with 18/18/16 in STR/DEX/CON. When I raise that to 19/19/16, take him to at least Level 13 and Dual him to a Fighter, he is going to have the BACKSTAB FROM HELL--5 stars in Small Sword, STR of 19, Backstab Quintuple Damage, and the Boots of Speed so he can run away, come back and do it again. And I'm wondering if you can still Backstab in Full Plate in BG2.....

Alternatively, build a kickass Fighter with 18 CON. Get him to Blunt+++ Missile+++ Spiked+++, then dual him to Cleric and give him the Claw of Kazgaroth. Know Your Items: The Claw is great, but it gives -2 to CON and weakens your Save vs. Death. No problem: Clerics don't use more than 16 CON anyway, and they innately have a great Save vs. Death. Problem solved, and now you've got a kickass Cleric with 1

something) STR and a huge amount of hitpoints, plus 3 times the weapon stars a straight Cleric could get.

Plan ahead, and you can do things like that. Read the manual over and over, and ask good questions. There are little things like: A Fighter -> Thief will have more HP, while a Thief -> Fighter will have better THAC0.

My guidelines: Don't Multiclass a Fighter, the restriction of not being able to specialize a weapon is too high a price to pay. Don't Dual a spellcaster, as their first half will NEVER be able to learn any more spells. Don't play a Bard. Fighter/Thieves and Cleric/Thieves can Find Traps while wearing armor. (I personally don't like Cleric/Thieves, because their Thievery button is hidden behind their Special Abilities button.) Multiclassed Fighter/Clerics and Ranger/Clerics take FOREVER to level up. Fighter/Thief/Mages and Fighter/Cleric/Mages also take forever, and their hitpoints suck as well.

Cerek the Barbaric · 11-09-2001, 03:50 PM

Just a quick note concerning the Thief's BackStab.

He doesn't necessarily have to be way out in front of the party. It IS more difficult in BG2, because you actually have to get behind whoever you're attacking.

What I do is position the thief where I want him and bring one of the fighters up to face the monster/enemy/whatever. This keeps him distracted and allows the thief to attempt a Backstab attack. With triple, quadruple, and finally, QUINTIPLE damage from one attack, this can often end the fight before it ever starts.

Yoshimo (BG2) is proficient with the katana. If you give him the Celestial Fury sword and he does 5x damage on his first hit, the fight is usually over.

I started using Imoen to do Backstab attacks in BG1 after reading that strategy on a webpage. It worked great. I would scout ahead while Hiding in Shadows and often take out any guards or monsters with 1 or 2 hits. I always kept the party fairly close so that I could send one of the fighters to help her if needed, but I only had to do that a couple of times.

Thieves can be one of the most powerful classes in the game. Back in the Pen&Paper days of AD&D, I once saved the entire party by playing a thief. I was scouting ahead of the party when they got caught in a massive trap. I used my Thieving Skills to find and rescue them (and avoid any guards).

SecretMaster · 11-09-2001, 05:18 PM

Hey, I say if you do a thief, you'll be happy with him. His traps are lethal, especially if your the Bounty Hunter, finding traps will help sssoooooooooo much, and in ToB, your high level traps rock!
SPOILER FOR TOB TRAPS
Time Trap- This trap causes the thief to stop time, for ? of seconds. With that, every hit made is counted as a backstab.
Spike Trap- DOes 30-60 damage!
Forgot last trap.

Lord Arlion Majere · 11-12-2001, 04:25 AM

A thife...secret master, dont forget he is playing baldurs gate 1 so he cant be an bounty hunter....

11-08-2001, 06:09 PM	#3
Lord Brass Emerald Dragon Join Date: September 17, 2001 Location: Good ol\' Blighty Age: 52 Posts: 913	Having just started SoA, I've been humming and harring about character continuation for several days now. Completing BG/TotSC with a F/MU/C, my levels were 6/6/6 (scary or what) so I've been rather annoyed about the changeover. I wouldn't mind so much, but that character has been a slow, but valuable member of the team all the way throughout. Mages do get stronger definitely, though they die if a fighter gets up close (and Arrows of Translocation will do it). Really, it's a matter of personal choice; every character has their advantages and disadvantages. A good thief is always required no matter what game you play (some early IWD is lethal) and multi's can be very versatile. Still, even after Imoen makes her miraculous conversion to one of Mystra's disciples, she's still a proficient thief. That alone is enough to annoy a saint, quite frankly. Think about the number of times you've used Imoen in her thief capacity. Then consider how long it would take for her to get those skills back. Without another light-fingered character on the books, you'd be up the proverbial river - more times than you'd care to remember. Sorry, still ranting on about the changeover. Everyone you ask here Jorgenish will tell you a different class and their reasons for it. Just ask yourself "What do I like playing?" That's as good a start as any other. BTW what did use to complete SoA (I'm guessing that you have completed it)? __________________ <b>I\'ve submitted to the Choc!</b>

11-09-2001, 08:26 AM	#5
Lord Arlion Majere Elite Waterdeep Guard Join Date: November 9, 2001 Location: Grimstad Posts: 21	The best character in the long run...? thats realy difficult to decide....i say if you like spells choose an multi or mage class....if you like diablo, whit hack and slash.....try a warrior.... one thing to notice is that if you like the spes. class in bg2 you cant play bg1 and then go on to bg2....so you have to be the "pure" classes..... In trance we trust [img]smile.gif[/img] __________________ Arlion Majere, Master Of Past and Future

11-09-2001, 12:02 PM	#6
Lemernis Drizzt Do'Urden Join Date: July 8, 2001 Location: New Jersey Posts: 611	As noted above, only humans can dual class. So if you want a combination of classes for any race other than human, multiclassing is your only option. If you want to play a cleric-thief for example, that is available only to a gnome. Or if you want to create a dwarven fighter-cleric (advantages being higher con/regenerating ability and magic resistance), etc., then you have to live with the lower number of weapons profs than if you dual classed using a human. The problem with a multiclass character is that in many cases weapons profs are limited to two 's. In such cases it makes more sense to dual class. Starting as a fighter and then dual classing at level 6 is a pretty good way to go. Because then you will have a generous allotment of weapons profs by the end of the game. And when you convert the character upon beginning BG2 you can have grandmastery (**) in one weapon, and still have 4-5 profs to allocate., depending on what class you dual to and whether you max the level in ToSC for the new class. Or you can put into dual-wielding with high mastery (**) and mastery () in two weapons. Something like that. Some prefer to dual-wield because it gives better THACO. Also, when you convert you may select any of the kits for your original fighter class. As to what class to dual to... cleric, thief, or mage... that is a matter of personal taste... I'm currently in a BG2/ToB MP game, still in it's very early stages, where I carried over a player from in BG1/Tales. I had dualed him as a fighter at level 6 to cleric. He maxed at level 8 as a cleric at the end of BG1. At the outset of BG2 I put ** in war hammer, * in flail, and ** in sword and shield syle. I figure he will pick up the flail of ages early on, and eventually get either the Runehammer or Crom Faeyr. Anyway, he will be able to rumble in melee, especially buffed up on Holy Might, Righteous Magic, etc. And of course as a cleric he will continue on and become as powerful as he can get. One of the players brought a pure thief from BG1 and after our first level-up will dual to mage. When he gets his thief skills back he will select the swashbuckler kit. And another player took a fighter from BG1 and dualed him to thief. He selected the Kensai kit and is dual-wielding katana and small sword. __________________ Exodus: Shadows of the South

11-09-2001, 01:50 PM	#7
SixOfSpades Dracolisk Join Date: September 16, 2001 Location: Bellingham, WA, USA Age: 46 Posts: 6,901	A few notes about Multi- and Dual-classing. This is a very involved, complex subject, so don't expect a short post. When dealing with EXP caps, it's true that Dual-classing makes the most use of whatever exp you can get, while Multi-classing leaves some experience just hanging off the end, not usable for anything. The upside of being Multi is that both of your classes are always gaining levels, and you're never stuck without any of your skills. Your THAC0 is better than a Dual, but your hitpoints are worse. Also, with a Multi, you're never more than 2-3 levels behind a pure-class character (at least, I don't think so). What's right for you? Plan ahead. Plan WAY freaking ahead. For instance, I made a Human Thief with 18/18/16 in STR/DEX/CON. When I raise that to 19/19/16, take him to at least Level 13 and Dual him to a Fighter, he is going to have the BACKSTAB FROM HELL--5 stars in Small Sword, STR of 19, Backstab Quintuple Damage, and the Boots of Speed so he can run away, come back and do it again. And I'm wondering if you can still Backstab in Full Plate in BG2..... Alternatively, build a kickass Fighter with 18 CON. Get him to Blunt+++ Missile+++ Spiked+++, then dual him to Cleric and give him the Claw of Kazgaroth. Know Your Items: The Claw is great, but it gives -2 to CON and weakens your Save vs. Death. No problem: Clerics don't use more than 16 CON anyway, and they innately have a great Save vs. Death. Problem solved, and now you've got a kickass Cleric with 1something) STR and a huge amount of hitpoints, plus 3 times the weapon stars a straight Cleric could get. Plan ahead, and you can do things like that. Read the manual over and over, and ask good questions. There are little things like: A Fighter -> Thief will have more HP, while a Thief -> Fighter will have better THAC0. My guidelines: Don't Multiclass a Fighter, the restriction of not being able to specialize a weapon is too high a price to pay. Don't Dual a spellcaster, as their first half will NEVER be able to learn any more spells. Don't play a Bard. Fighter/Thieves and Cleric/Thieves can Find Traps while wearing armor. (I personally don't like Cleric/Thieves, because their Thievery button is hidden behind their Special Abilities button.) Multiclassed Fighter/Clerics and Ranger/Clerics take FOREVER to level up. Fighter/Thief/Mages and Fighter/Cleric/Mages also take forever, and their hitpoints suck as well. __________________ Volothamp's Comeuppance Everything you ever needed to know about the entire Baldur's Gate series......except spoilers.

11-09-2001, 03:50 PM	#8
Cerek the Barbaric Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice Join Date: October 29, 2001 Location: North Carolina Age: 61 Posts: 3,257	Just a quick note concerning the Thief's BackStab. He doesn't necessarily have to be way out in front of the party. It IS more difficult in BG2, because you actually have to get behind whoever you're attacking. What I do is position the thief where I want him and bring one of the fighters up to face the monster/enemy/whatever. This keeps him distracted and allows the thief to attempt a Backstab attack. With triple, quadruple, and finally, QUINTIPLE damage from one attack, this can often end the fight before it ever starts. Yoshimo (BG2) is proficient with the katana. If you give him the Celestial Fury sword and he does 5x damage on his first hit, the fight is usually over. I started using Imoen to do Backstab attacks in BG1 after reading that strategy on a webpage. It worked great. I would scout ahead while Hiding in Shadows and often take out any guards or monsters with 1 or 2 hits. I always kept the party fairly close so that I could send one of the fighters to help her if needed, but I only had to do that a couple of times. Thieves can be one of the most powerful classes in the game. Back in the Pen&Paper days of AD&D, I once saved the entire party by playing a thief. I was scouting ahead of the party when they got caught in a massive trap. I used my Thieving Skills to find and rescue them (and avoid any guards). __________________ [img]\"http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/cerek/cerektsrsig.jpg\" alt=\" - \" /><br />Cerek the Calmth

11-08-2001, 05:01 PM	#1
Jorgenish Elite Waterdeep Guard Join Date: October 28, 2001 Location: Denmark Posts: 12	ive been playing shadows of amn for a while now..and got really hooked on it so now i bought bg1+TOSC and icewind dale..and i plan on making a character to push through all games.. so my question is..if a mage loses all his spells going from one game to another..is it better to play a fighter character? i am thinking on making a cleric..cause i like the combo of a tank with healing spells.. otherwise id go for a mage. another thing..i never quite understood the advantage of a dual class compared to a multi class character?

11-08-2001, 05:25 PM	#2
SecretMaster Apophis Join Date: October 19, 2001 Location: New York Age: 37 Posts: 4,666	Well, its really your choice. Just know this, as all of the BG series proggresses, the mage becomes the strongest, and the fighter the weakest. The advantage of mult-class is to have to classes at once, like a fighter/thief. They have the abilities of a fighter and a thief, but they have certain restrictions. You also get to a lower level multi-classed. Dual classing is similar, but for dual classing, you switch to that class permanatley. You must be a human, and have the required stats to dual class. Also, try a thief, you barely find a good thief in SoA, and u need one for all of SoA and ToB

11-09-2001, 02:47 AM	#4
Jorgenish Elite Waterdeep Guard Join Date: October 28, 2001 Location: Denmark Posts: 12	Thanks for the replys guys.. [img]smile.gif[/img] I am aware of the necessity of a thief searching out for traps..but i just hardly ever use em for much more..although in a tough fight i found that setting a special trap or two could harm an iron golem. Other than that i hardly ever use my thief for anything, and use them as missile support. its too risky to steal, and never tried backstabbing..arent you getting caught way up front with your thief if you do that? i finished SoA with a mage (conjurer- i love the elemental spells), and i found out the hard way that it sucks to lose your familiar. He did kick ass later in the game tho. I am currently planning on making a multiclass mage/cleric.. you did mention multi as Fighter/mage/cleric right?..does that enable you to wear armor? or is there any other advantage there? also you say that multi is slower..does the xp get split between the classes then? but since theres a xp gap.. its a good thing to be multi noh? Other than that i like the clerics, but i was wondering if i could pair healing spells with the use of a twohand sword or a long bow? im thinking ranger here, but they dont get so many healing spells do they?

11-09-2001, 05:18 PM	#9
SecretMaster Apophis Join Date: October 19, 2001 Location: New York Age: 37 Posts: 4,666	Hey, I say if you do a thief, you'll be happy with him. His traps are lethal, especially if your the Bounty Hunter, finding traps will help sssoooooooooo much, and in ToB, your high level traps rock! SPOILER FOR TOB TRAPS Time Trap- This trap causes the thief to stop time, for ? of seconds. With that, every hit made is counted as a backstab. Spike Trap- DOes 30-60 damage! Forgot last trap.

11-12-2001, 04:25 AM	#10
Lord Arlion Majere Elite Waterdeep Guard Join Date: November 9, 2001 Location: Grimstad Posts: 21	A thife...secret master, dont forget he is playing baldurs gate 1 so he cant be an bounty hunter.... __________________ Arlion Majere, Master Of Past and Future

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