Religion

[Epona]

quote:

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Originally posted by MagiK:


Im sorry but you are a bit off there, Christians are not the only nor the first religeon to have a "Satanic" figure in the mythos, Christians may actually have copied this figure from earlier belief systems.

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Yeah, I accept I don't know too much about the origins of Satan - which is why I added "see post above" because there was what I believed to be a good point already posted on just this subject - no point in me just parrotting what the previous poster said

[fable]

quote:

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Originally posted by Garnet FalconDance:


Nope, nope, she didn't say Christians had the monopoly or the trademark on Satan but that Satan was "of" the Christian belief system.

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And this is literally correct. Ahriman (for example) may have served for a previous religion, but the concept of Satan is very much a part of medieval Manichean Christianity.

[Epona]

quote:

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Originally posted by fable:


And this is literally correct. Ahriman (for example) may have served for a previous religion, but the concept of Satan is very much a part of medieval Manichean Christianity.

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Thanks fable,
Because I was aware of the shortcomings of my knowledge about the origins of Satan, I was *really* careful how I worded it! My post was mostly aimed at telling Durwyn to behave himself, rather than a discussion about the semantics (although that is interesting too!)

[ 01-18-2002: Message edited by: Epona ]

[J'aran]

quote:

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Originally posted by Epona:


J'aran, the way I read it, Wolfgir was referring to those people who assume black=death - not Wiccans/Pagans! I like to think I have known him long enough to be sure he would never demean anyone that way [img]smile.gif[/img]

[ 01-18-2002: Message edited by: Epona ]

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Ah, I misunderstood him there then. My mistake [img]smile.gif[/img] Sorry Wolfgir.

[Cerek the Barbaric]

quote:

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Originally posted by Garnet FalconDance:


Cerek, darlin'.....long time, no talk. I promise not to Baptist bash, ok? [img]smile.gif[/img] as long as we keep the green face/warts on the chin comments to a minimum.

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Greetings again, Garnet.

I hope your holidays went well. BTW, did you get your little "problem" resolved. Now I understand why you had to use so much caution and disgression.

AFA the theological debate goes, you will find I'm much less "hard-core" then many of chosen faith. Not that I believe the Bible any less fervently than they do, I just don't think "thumping" it on the heads of non-believers is the best way to make them see my point of view.

The Bible says we are to witness and "win" people to Christ - not yell, scream and "scare the hell out of them".

quote:

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Originally posted by Garnet FalconDance:


Nope, nope, she didn't say Christians had the monopoly or the trademark on Satan but that Satan was "of" the Christian belief system.

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Saying that something is "of" something is like saying it is soley from that something and that is not the case, the "satan" concept predates christianity...so you ow0uld also have to say that christianity is of the babylonian belief system......it just does not convey the proper meaning.

quote:

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Originally posted by fable:


And this is literally correct. Ahriman (for example) may have served for a previous religion, but the concept of Satan is very much a part of medieval Manichean Christianity.

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I think not, the whole "satan" figure is older and predates christianity, the name of the figurehead may have changed but satan as a concept was not originated by christians becuase the concept predates the religion.


Edits for my typo's and NO I have NOT been drinking!

[ 01-18-2002: Message edited by: MagiK ]

[Garnet FalconDance]

quote:

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Originally posted by MagiK:


Saying that something is "of" something is like saying it is soley from that something and that is not the case, the "satan" concept predates christianity...so you ow0uld also have to say that christianity is of the babylonian belief system......it just does not convey the proper meaning.

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Not precisely.

Demons and 'evil' certainly do predate Christianity. Creatures we now call 'satanic' do as well. HOWEVER, the early Christians, who just happened to be a cult of the Jewish/Hebraic people, borrowed Lucifer from the Old Testament and reassembled him as the Satan we all know and hate today. (The Jewish Lucifer was originally God's chief prosecutor. The word 'saitan' meant 'obstacle'.)

And technically, Christianity *does* include parts of the Babylonian system as well as every other belief system either before the New Testament or after! It is the way in which it mixed them all and approach the idea of salvation through the Christ figure that makes them who they are.

[fable]

quote:

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Originally posted by MagiK:


I think not, the whole "satan" figure is older and predates christianity, the name of the figurehead may have changed but satan as a concept was not originated by christians becuase the concept predates the religion.

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Magik, what pre-Christian religions display horned, tailed demonic figures that walk among humankind, tempting them to fall through the seven sins in order to trap them forever in a fiery afterlife?

Oh hell that isnt even nesecarily a religious thing the visual you described is from the middle ages sheesh..>I thought we were talking concepts here and not Dante. As for the seven deadly sins those were actually not defined as such untill the middle ages as well....you are mixing radicly different time frames here.