Federal agents hunt for guns, one house at a time

[Felix The Assassin]

Originally Posted by SpiritWarrior Most of Europe ban guns and they get along just fine. Think about how the level of threat drops when you envision a kid walking into a school wielding a baseball bat as opposed to a loaded gun. I think they cause alot more problems than they solve, and there are working examples all over the world to prove it.

Man, take a few days off to tend to the crops, and bam! Everybody becomes an expert!

I big misconception is what outsiders feel happens within mainland Europe.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=105002026

This again is for legal possession of guns in Europe, does not include the illegal smuggling of guns coming out of former East-Bloc nations. Oops, disregard, I did not intend to type that in plain text!

[Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by VulcanRider Chewie, the argument is weak? How? Right now, 34 (so far) of the State Attorneys General have jointly filed a brief asking the US Supreme Court to grant certiorari, meaning they want the USSC to review a lower court's ruling for review & possible reversal. The AGs want a ruling that the Second Amendment protects a fundamental individual right to keep and bear arms, and that this overrides state & local legislation restricting ownership, based on the Due Process clause of the 14th amendment. According to this Wiki article, that clause in the 14th has been used by the federal government to apply most of the Bill of Rights to the states since that amendment was passed after the Civil War. Two thirds (and counting) of the state Attorneys General -- the chief law enforcement officers for their states -- support an individual's right to keep and bear arms. Seems like a pretty strong argument to me. The actual writ is part of an ongoing court case to overturn some of the Chicago anti-gun laws.

I have yet to argue against the right to bear arms, having in fact affirmed positively that it exists more than it doesn't.

Quoting a very smallpart of the whole verse is very weak and open to easily taking the meaning outside of context-perfect for scoring politcal points. It's even weaker and totally ignorant to try to argue against somebody who wasn't even disagreeing.

[Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by Cerek Not when those 3 or 4 words represent the core of the Amendment and that core meaning has been supported by the Judicial system time and time again. Given the wording of the Amendment and the support provided by the Judicial system of that amendment, it is not a mis-quote to state the 2nd Amendment does guarantee the right for US citizens to bear arms.

Big misquote, you left out the majority of the words. Your opinion those 4 words have been given more weight by collective judicial history.

[Felix The Assassin]

Originally Posted by Ilander ...Well...I'm just going to go out on a limb here and say that I'm fine with banning handguns, just like we banned automatics. They're only for killing people anyway. If you debate that...well, tell me what kind of silhouettes you shoot at the gun range. The day you keep me from owning a shotgun or rifle...well...I'll be unhappy. Not crestfallen, provided there's a voted-for amendment to the constitution...but unhappy. Dictating the type of weapon people are allowed to have doesn't infringe upon their right to have a weapon of some sort. Further, increasing regulations lowers the amount of guns on the market, as supply and demand dictate (since people are lazy, and don't want to register, demand decreases...and guns aren't going to get that much cheaper, so supply will decrease). Decreasing overall supply WILL decrease gun-crime.

S&W .357 21/2" barrel for exactly one thing, and one thing only, self defense! During the day it is loaded with store bought:
http://www.federalpremium.com/produc...un.aspx?id=601

At night it becomes a home defense weapon and is loaded with:
https://dakotaammo.net/shop/product_...roducts_id=176

It also does well on close in rodents and reptiles.

I agree about your synopsis on people being lazy. But again you are only covering down on law abiding citizens. How many "hoody-whos" are going to register? How many of them will be denied a license when they don't?

Also, a Beretta 92F, which the spousal unit is extremely accurate with out to about 30m. Reason? Just cause I can, it's cool looking, and is the civilian version of the military version I carried for a dozen and a half years!

You like long guns? Wanna match that ol' flint lock squirrel knocker to my SKS at 100 yards?

Seriously, this law will only affect law abiding citizens, and will have nil effect on weapon smuggling, drug dealing, hardened criminals. It is a feel good and fuzzy law, and will not produce any statistical effects. Recall bill clinton's gun law, great law for the liberal minded followers of politics, yet has documented effects which contributed to a total reduction of those types of weapons being used in violent crime of a whopping 0%.

Remember the "Columbine High School massacre"? It happened during the clinton years and his gun laws! WOW, that really did a lot!

If you want gun control? Use both hands and take the criminal out!

[Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by Felix The Assassin Remember the "Columbine High School massacre"? It happened during the clinton years and his gun laws! WOW, that really did a lot!

So, Felix is VA Tech GW Bush's fault? srysly??? Your not helping your cause.

[Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by VulcanRider Chewie, the argument is weak? How? Right now, 34 (so far) of the State Attorneys General have jointly filed a brief asking the US Supreme Court to grant certiorari, meaning they want the USSC to review a lower court's ruling for review & possible reversal. The AGs want a ruling that the Second Amendment protects a fundamental individual right to keep and bear arms, and that this overrides state & local legislation restricting ownership, based on the Due Process clause of the 14th amendment. According to this Wiki article, that clause in the 14th has been used by the federal government to apply most of the Bill of Rights to the states since that amendment was passed after the Civil War. Two thirds (and counting) of the state Attorneys General -- the chief law enforcement officers for their states -- support an individual's right to keep and bear arms. Seems like a pretty strong argument to me. The actual writ is part of an ongoing court case to overturn some of the Chicago anti-gun laws.

I meant to add that your post is a really excellent example of a stronger argument. Citizen resolve and government lobbying does produce results.

[SpiritWarrior]

Originally Posted by Felix The Assassin Man, take a few days off to tend to the crops, and bam! Everybody becomes an expert! I big misconception is what outsiders feel happens within mainland Europe. http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=105002026 This again is for legal possession of guns in Europe, does not include the illegal smuggling of guns coming out of former East-Bloc nations. Oops, disregard, I did not intend to type that in plain text!

Man, this thread has mushroomed.

Hmmm. Why did you say how wrong I am then proceed to post an article showing the strict levels of gun control in 3 European countries that actually do allow guns (with great exceptions) and that talks about how it's becoming even more stricter in these countries, so much so that some Olympians have to go overseas because they are forbidden to even perform target practice in said locations...?

It seemed like you were making a point but the article made the opposite point. Which, coincidentally, was my point to begin with. How Europe deal with guns, banned or very restrictive if even that. And that link is supportive of this.

[Ilander]

Originally Posted by Felix The Assassin I agree about your synopsis on people being lazy. But again you are only covering down on law abiding citizens. How many "hoody-whos" are going to register? How many of them will be denied a license when they don't? [ ... ] You like long guns? Wanna match that ol' flint lock squirrel knocker to my SKS at 100 yards?

First off...someday, when I buy my .270 with a scope, I'd love to match it with your SKS

Now, as to the "hoody-whos"...how many of them are smart enough to start an international gun smuggling operation in the US to bring in guns from elsewhere? None, right? Well, you decrease the supply of Average Joe's Guns, you decrease the supply that Hoody J Who steals from...and as such, you keep them out of criminals hands. It's about as good as we can get...because, Average Joe doesn't want to kill people, isn't necessarily extremely proficient with his firearm, and might get it stolen from under his nose with relatively little trouble.

Guns are great...they give mankind mastery of his(her) environment. As always, though, once that mastery is achieved---and it has been---it's time to grow up, decide if that power for mastery should be restricted, and then act.

[Firestormalpha]

Originally Posted by Ilander As always, though, once that mastery is achieved---and it has been---it's time to grow up, decide if that power for mastery should be restricted, and then act.

In otherwords there comes a time to raise the question, "Just because you can, should you?".

[Felix The Assassin]

Originally Posted by Firestormalpha In otherwords there comes a time to raise the question, "Just because you can, should you?".

Correct!