Time-travelling insider caught! - Page 2

LordKathen · 03-31-2003, 08:48 AM

I dont remember this new user being welcomed. Solitary Hacker. Heed the advice of Chocs soldiers, and welcome. [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img]

Donut · 03-31-2003, 10:32 AM

Yes welcome to IW Solitary.

But don't swear or you'll get uss a bad reputation.

Thorfinn · 03-31-2003, 10:40 AM

Doesn't anyone else have at least a teensy problem with this? I thought that the police could not hold you for a crime without specific evidence that a crime was committed. Leaving aside the question of whether insider trading should be a crime or not, there is still the matter that these jackbooted thugs have no evidence whatsoever of his crime, that of knowing things that are not commonly known, with the exception that his success is exceedingly improbable. They are merely locking him up until he confesses. Seems to me there are at least a couple Amendments being broken, let alone that Article I, Section 8 says nothing about SEC or insider trading, anyway.

Then again, the Constitution has become worth little more than toilet paper over the last couple decades...

LordKathen · 03-31-2003, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Thorfinn:
Doesn't anyone else have at least a teensy problem with this? I thought that the police could not hold you for a crime without specific evidence that a crime was committed. Leaving aside the question of whether insider trading should be a crime or not, there is still the matter that these jackbooted thugs have no evidence whatsoever of his crime, that of knowing things that are not commonly known, with the exception that his success is exceedingly improbable. They are merely locking him up until he confesses. Seems to me there are at least a couple Amendments being broken, let alone that Article I, Section 8 says nothing about SEC or insider trading, anyway.

Then again, the Constitution has become worth little more than toilet paper over the last couple decades...

I am sure TL could comment better here, but, I think they can hold you on suspision, untill further findings. I mean come on, look at the increase in money! My goodness...

Thorfinn · 03-31-2003, 11:03 AM

Yes, but making money in the stock market is not illegal. I don't think they can (or at least should) be prosecuting for suspicion of a crime, but only with specific evidence that a crime had been committed.

I have no problem with holding someone for the 48 hours or whatever, and no problem with denying bail if he is indicted and is a flight risk (as a time traveller would certainly be), but unless you have sufficient evidence to indict, he should still have habeas corpus.

LordKathen · 03-31-2003, 11:11 AM

We are having lots of problems with the market these days, with Enron, Martha Stewart, etc.. I would say it is illegal to extort or froudulently aquire that kind of gain. Suspision is most of what the system is anyway, it seems to me.

/)eathKiller · 03-31-2003, 11:15 AM

If he really was from the future he would have forseen himself being arrested... so No I highly doubt it [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Donut · 03-31-2003, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by /)eathKiller:
If he really was from the future he would have forseen himself being arrested... so No I highly doubt it [img]tongue.gif[/img]

Not at all. By coming back he has changed the future. Obviously he has polluted the timeline.

I can't believe that people are questioning this, it seems above board to me.

LordKathen · 03-31-2003, 11:35 AM

Oh great! Another stockmarket ripple! Whats next?

[img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img]

Thorfinn · 03-31-2003, 11:52 AM

Doesn't apply here, of course, but what would happen if he said that God appeared to him in visions and told him which stocks to pick? Surely you can't be prosecuted for listening to the voices in your head, unless they tell you to chop the neighbor into little bitty pieces, can you?

What difference does it make what his alibi is? Isn't the intent of the court system supposed to be that the government has the burden of proof to show that you have committed some crime? If the government can't show evidence that a specific crime has been committed, and specific evidence of who and how, from a legal point of view, does it matter whether he even has an alibi? (Granted, they are very helpful from an exculpatory point of view, but strictly speaking, should not affect that burden of proof, right?)

[ 03-31-2003, 11:54 AM: Message edited by: Thorfinn ]

03-31-2003, 08:48 AM	#11
LordKathen Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice Join Date: September 15, 2002 Location: Kennewick, WA Age: 52 Posts: 3,166	I dont remember this new user being welcomed. Solitary Hacker. Heed the advice of Chocs soldiers, and welcome. [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img] __________________

03-31-2003, 10:32 AM	#12
Donut Jack Burton Join Date: March 1, 2001 Location: Airstrip One Age: 40 Posts: 5,571	Yes welcome to IW Solitary. But don't swear or you'll get uss a bad reputation. __________________ [img]\"http://www.wheatsheaf.freeserve.co.uk/roastspurs.gif\" alt=\" - \" /> <br />Proud member of the Axis of Upheaval<br />Official Titterer of the Laughing Hyenas<br />Josiah Bartlet - the best President the US never had.<br />The 1st D in the D & D Show

03-31-2003, 11:11 AM	#16
LordKathen Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice Join Date: September 15, 2002 Location: Kennewick, WA Age: 52 Posts: 3,166	We are having lots of problems with the market these days, with Enron, Martha Stewart, etc.. I would say it is illegal to extort or froudulently aquire that kind of gain. Suspision is most of what the system is anyway, it seems to me. __________________

03-31-2003, 11:15 AM	#17
/)eathKiller Dracolisk Join Date: January 5, 2002 Location: Guantanamo Bay, Cuba Age: 38 Posts: 6,043	If he really was from the future he would have forseen himself being arrested... so No I highly doubt it [img]tongue.gif[/img] __________________ [img]\"http://membres.lycos.fr/th8or/ZeroSigForIronworks.gif\" alt=\" - \" /> o.o;

03-31-2003, 11:35 AM	#19
LordKathen Ma'at - Goddess of Truth & Justice Join Date: September 15, 2002 Location: Kennewick, WA Age: 52 Posts: 3,166	Oh great! Another stockmarket ripple! Whats next? [img]graemlins/hehe.gif[/img] __________________

03-31-2003, 10:40 AM	#13
Thorfinn Zhentarim Guard Join Date: February 24, 2003 Location: Indiana Age: 61 Posts: 358	Doesn't anyone else have at least a teensy problem with this? I thought that the police could not hold you for a crime without specific evidence that a crime was committed. Leaving aside the question of whether insider trading should be a crime or not, there is still the matter that these jackbooted thugs have no evidence whatsoever of his crime, that of knowing things that are not commonly known, with the exception that his success is exceedingly improbable. They are merely locking him up until he confesses. Seems to me there are at least a couple Amendments being broken, let alone that Article I, Section 8 says nothing about SEC or insider trading, anyway. Then again, the Constitution has become worth little more than toilet paper over the last couple decades...

03-31-2003, 11:03 AM	#15
Thorfinn Zhentarim Guard Join Date: February 24, 2003 Location: Indiana Age: 61 Posts: 358	Yes, but making money in the stock market is not illegal. I don't think they can (or at least should) be prosecuting for suspicion of a crime, but only with specific evidence that a crime had been committed. I have no problem with holding someone for the 48 hours or whatever, and no problem with denying bail if he is indicted and is a flight risk (as a time traveller would certainly be), but unless you have sufficient evidence to indict, he should still have habeas corpus.

03-31-2003, 11:52 AM	#20
Thorfinn Zhentarim Guard Join Date: February 24, 2003 Location: Indiana Age: 61 Posts: 358	Doesn't apply here, of course, but what would happen if he said that God appeared to him in visions and told him which stocks to pick? Surely you can't be prosecuted for listening to the voices in your head, unless they tell you to chop the neighbor into little bitty pieces, can you? What difference does it make what his alibi is? Isn't the intent of the court system supposed to be that the government has the burden of proof to show that you have committed some crime? If the government can't show evidence that a specific crime has been committed, and specific evidence of who and how, from a legal point of view, does it matter whether he even has an alibi? (Granted, they are very helpful from an exculpatory point of view, but strictly speaking, should not affect that burden of proof, right?) [ 03-31-2003, 11:54 AM: Message edited by: Thorfinn ]

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