Visit the Ironworks Gaming Website Email the Webmaster Graphics Library Rules and Regulations Help Support Ironworks Forum with a Donation to Keep us Online - We rely totally on Donations from members Donation goal Meter

Ironworks Gaming Radio

Ironworks Gaming Forum

Go Back   Ironworks Gaming Forum > Ironworks Gaming Forums > General Discussion

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-04-2005, 05:01 AM   #51
Davros
Takhisis Follower
 

Join Date: January 7, 2001
Location: Mandurah, West Australia
Age: 60
Posts: 5,073
Azred's Answers :

1) It's been statistically proven that 40-60% of people that watch FOX actually swallow their bald faced lies hook line and sinker. It is possible that you are in the other half (you claim to be and who am I to judge), but I hardly think that means that the service enhances your country's culture or intelligence level.

2) Multilateralism - why is it better? That is like asking "Democracy - why is it better than dictatorship". It is one person or country imposing their will on many. While I supported the removal of Saddam, my preference was clearly to have the thing done under the asupices of the UN or at least a much much wider cross section of the international community than our rather feeble coalition of the willing. Sadder still that the countries that were ridiculed (and in some cases still being persecuted) because they felt there was not overwhelming evidence of WOMD happened to eventually be found to be on the side of truth.

3) nuff said about THAT song .

4) Isolationism? No way at all to win friends and influence people is it? That is the attitude that encourages dislike and lack of respect. If isolationism had continued all the way through world war 11 some people say you might well be speaking a different language by now. Even the biggest of us can be picked apart if the whole world becomes our enemy. Why then would one not want to play their part in world affairs and trade etc.

5) A spot of agreement - kool [img]smile.gif[/img]

6) Yup - true I will grant you. In this particular case, I would have included the EU as well (if my spiel had not been asked to be about America). It is not so much your policies but the tit for tat war between you two that has created the uneven playing field for countries that have no desire to drain taxation revenues to subsidise agricultural products and keep some of the most ineficient farmers in the world rolling in the money.

7) No dude - not been listening to tecnophobes - you are talking to a Chemical Engineer that for 8 years was a food technologist. I am smart enough to make up my own mind thank you. While were at it, do you really think Monsanto is driven by benevolance to your fellow man or by big fat profits to greedy shareholders. Of course it is the latter - why would they fight so many law suits and class actions if it was the former?
__________________
Davros was right - just ask JD
Davros is offline  
Old 02-04-2005, 10:27 AM   #52
John D Harris
Ninja Storm Shadow
 

Join Date: March 27, 2001
Location: Northport,Alabama, USA
Age: 62
Posts: 3,577
Quote:
Originally posted by Barry the Sprout:


John, I understand that the phrase does not necessarily posit a literal connection between every man, woman, and child in Iraq and terrorism. But nevertheless it can be read in that manner, and its the ambiguous nature of it that causes problems really. "Iraqi terrorist scum" can be read as saying either "Iraqi's are terrorist scum" or "These terrorist scum are Iraqi".
For arguement's sake let's say it could be read either way. that then begs the questions was an attempt to find out which way Morg meant it, before the accusations of "racist/racism" were thrown out? Or the congratulatory(sp?) pats on the back were given for putting a racists in their place? I could have very well have missed the attempts to find out what Morg meant, I don't believe I have.

Quote:
Sure, you could argue against the racism charge using technicalities of language, but at a literal reading you have to see that the phrase could quite conceivably be seen as racist. Similarly Big Ron could probably claim that when he called a black footballer a "stupid ****ing ■■■■■■" that he meant he was a stupid ****er who also happened to be black, and that nothing negative was implied to the black people who aren't stupid ****ers. He still lost his job at the Beeb, because no one would've bought it.
That anology falls apart, because Iraqi is not a term of race(as race is defined in common English) but a term of "nationality". So at worse Morg could be called a "xenophobic nationalityist"(Harrisism). There is not but one race of humans on this planet, we come in many colors, shapes, and sizes, but we are all human. Now assumeing, from Morg's "where are you from"(US Army War College), that Morg is in the Military. If that assumption is correct, for illustration purposes let's say Morg has 2 silver bars on his shoulders (he's a Capt.) If a man or woman walks up to Morg with gold or silver Oakleaves(is a Major or Lt. Col.) on thier shoulder, Morg will snap to attention and give them the respect they are due regaurdless of their skincolor, creed, National origin or any delination of superficial(sp?) differances that might be interpted as "Race" by any other Human.

Morg went farther to explain He was speaking of ISLAMOFACIST. Now I understand that term is not used commonly (sp?),and therefore may not understood by everybody as to what Morg meant. "Islamofacist" is not all followers of Islam, but those that follow Islam in a facist manner, or conduct facist activities in their following of Islam. Morg may or may not have meant "Islamofacist" in that manner, I believe he did, based on the fact he went on to place the term "faithful" in bold type, setting it apart from the rest of the sentence for special consideration. As in "faithful" are only the followers Islam that beleive the way Islamofacists do. I can be wrong about that, but only Morg can tell me or anyone else if that was the meaning he was attempting to put forth. If Morg meant all followers of Islam then he would be a "religiousist" (Harrisism #2), since he also wnet on to explain that followers of Islam come in all colors, shapes, sizes, or other delinations that one wishes to use to show different Races of Humans.
__________________
Crustiest of the OLD COOTS "Donating mirrors for years to help the Liberal/Socialist find their collective rear-ends, because both hands doesn't seem to be working.
Veitnam 61-65:KIA 1864
66:KIA 5008
67:KIA 9378
68:KIA 14594
69:KIA 9414
70:KIA 4221
71:KIA 1380
72:KIA 300

Afghanistan2001-2008 KIA 585
2009-2012 KIA 1465 and counting

Davros 1
Much abliged Massachusetts
John D Harris is offline  
Old 02-04-2005, 12:40 PM   #53
Morgeruat
Jack Burton
 

Join Date: October 16, 2001
Location: PA
Age: 43
Posts: 5,421
Thank you John D, to further clarify, I have a very intense dislike for Islam, and Islamofascists, NOT muslims. People are people, and there are millions upon millions of muslims that are good honest moral people, by anyones code of morals, or conduct, Davros, Barry, Mel, John D, Majik, et al I've not checked your "where are you from" in over a year, because quite simply it doesn't matter. PEOPLE ARE PEOPLE.
__________________
"Any attempt to cheat, especially with my wife, who is a dirty, dirty, tramp, and I am just gonna snap." Knibb High Principal - Billy Madison
Morgeruat is offline  
Old 02-04-2005, 03:56 PM   #54
Azred
Drow Priestess
 

Join Date: March 13, 2001
Location: a hidden sanctorum high above the metroplex
Age: 54
Posts: 4,037
Question Mark

1) True. This is the country that has turned "reality tv" into smash hits.

2) Point well taken. Consensus with one's neighbors is not necessarily a bad thing.

4) I suppose one must recall Meriadoc's speech to Treebeard about being "part of this world".

7) I was unaware of your previous profession; no disrepect intended. In fact, I was merely engaging in a little leg-pulling. [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img] I have a degree in chemistry, myself, although I was not a CE so I defer to your more advanced level of technical knowledge here.
No corporation exists for the purposes of benevolence. [img]graemlins/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif[/img]
__________________
Everything may be explained by a conspiracy theory. All conspiracy theories are true.

No matter how thinly you slice it, it's still bologna.
Azred is offline  
Old 02-04-2005, 06:58 PM   #55
Davros
Takhisis Follower
 

Join Date: January 7, 2001
Location: Mandurah, West Australia
Age: 60
Posts: 5,073
Quote:
Originally posted by Azred:
1)
4) I suppose one must recall Meriadoc's speech to Treebeard about being "part of this world".
Right on - exactly - man I wish I would have thought of that as my answer [img]smile.gif[/img] . I will save that one up in the memory if you don't mind - to toss into future discussions about isolataionism.

And its been good to trade some answers with someone without the usual right/left push and pull.

Cheers.
__________________
Davros was right - just ask JD
Davros is offline  
Old 02-04-2005, 10:52 PM   #56
Azred
Drow Priestess
 

Join Date: March 13, 2001
Location: a hidden sanctorum high above the metroplex
Age: 54
Posts: 4,037
Question Mark

Flatterer. [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img]

More people should leave the pushmepullyou to Dr. Doolittle.
__________________
Everything may be explained by a conspiracy theory. All conspiracy theories are true.

No matter how thinly you slice it, it's still bologna.
Azred is offline  
Old 02-06-2005, 01:06 AM   #57
Chewbacca
Zartan
 

Join Date: July 18, 2001
Location: America, On The Beautiful Earth
Age: 50
Posts: 5,373
Quote:
Originally posted by Azred:

quote:
Originally posted by Chewbacca:
Pointing out Saddam's Husseins' documented and alleged wickedness does not cover the failures of Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Bremmer, and the rest of the gang, nor excuse them one little bit.
What failures? Unless I am completely mistaken, the Iraqis held elections last Sunday, which is a damn sight better than many others were able to bring about over the last couple of decades. They have done nothing immoral or illegal; thus, they need no explanation or excusing for their actions.

[/QUOTE]Perhaps you are mistaken, or Bush and Co has blown enough sunshine your way that you missed the obvious and widely reported.

Let's start with the recent failure to get the signifcant minority of the Sunni's to participate in the elections. The elections were a crock and failed to represent the whole of Iraq. Casting the Sunni's aside is only going to strenghten and prolong the insurgency which will then become a civil war when, or rather if, U.S. forces ever leave.

Anyway...The list of failures is long. Ranging from disbanding the Iraqi military soon after the invasion stage to failing to have enough troops on the ground during the initial occupation stage to stop widepspread crime and looting.

To speak in general terms of what is illegal and immoral. According to international law, invading Iraq in the first was both illegal and waging offensive war is usually considered immoral. I think causing thousands of deaths is immoral. Iraq is more dangerous now, than when Saddam the terrible ruled. I think creating those conditions is immoral.
__________________
Support Local Music and Record Stores!
Got Liberty?
Chewbacca is offline  
Old 02-07-2005, 10:22 AM   #58
John D Harris
Ninja Storm Shadow
 

Join Date: March 27, 2001
Location: Northport,Alabama, USA
Age: 62
Posts: 3,577
Quote:
Originally posted by Chewbacca:
quote:
Originally posted by Azred:

quote:
Originally posted by Chewbacca:
Pointing out Saddam's Husseins' documented and alleged wickedness does not cover the failures of Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, Bremmer, and the rest of the gang, nor excuse them one little bit.
What failures? Unless I am completely mistaken, the Iraqis held elections last Sunday, which is a damn sight better than many others were able to bring about over the last couple of decades. They have done nothing immoral or illegal; thus, they need no explanation or excusing for their actions.

[/QUOTE]Perhaps you are mistaken, or Bush and Co has blown enough sunshine your way that you missed the obvious and widely reported.

Let's start with the recent failure to get the signifcant minority of the Sunni's to participate in the elections. The elections were a crock and failed to represent the whole of Iraq. Casting the Sunni's aside is only going to strenghten and prolong the insurgency which will then become a civil war when, or rather if, U.S. forces ever leave.

Anyway...The list of failures is long. Ranging from disbanding the Iraqi military soon after the invasion stage to failing to have enough troops on the ground during the initial occupation stage to stop widepspread crime and looting.

To speak in general terms of what is illegal and immoral. According to international law, invading Iraq in the first was both illegal and waging offensive war is usually considered immoral. I think causing thousands of deaths is immoral. Iraq is more dangerous now, than when Saddam the terrible ruled. I think creating those conditions is immoral.
[/QUOTE]1) I doubt the same would have been said if the Former rulers(the white minority) of South Africa, had failed to vote in signifcant numbers in that countries first free elections. In fact I'll go so far as to say that "if insignifcant numbers of whites had voted in SA's first free elections many would be hootting and hol'aring with joy". In the same vein was the US elections of 1864 invalid because there were not signifcant southern voters? The Sunni's chose not to vote, elections are not decided by who does not participate, but by those that do participate.

2) The Iraqi military was disbanded because the country was starting fresh, the slate had to be wiped clean, no hold overs. When you start anew, you must start anew. The number of troops is an opinion, the people incharge of the operation believe the number is what was needed. There is no number of troops that would have stoped the insurgency completely.

3)Each of us must decide for ourselves what they beleive is moral and immoral.
__________________
Crustiest of the OLD COOTS "Donating mirrors for years to help the Liberal/Socialist find their collective rear-ends, because both hands doesn't seem to be working.
Veitnam 61-65:KIA 1864
66:KIA 5008
67:KIA 9378
68:KIA 14594
69:KIA 9414
70:KIA 4221
71:KIA 1380
72:KIA 300

Afghanistan2001-2008 KIA 585
2009-2012 KIA 1465 and counting

Davros 1
Much abliged Massachusetts
John D Harris is offline  
Old 02-07-2005, 08:21 PM   #59
Dace De'Briago
Silver Dragon
 

Join Date: December 28, 2002
Location: Wales
Age: 43
Posts: 1,617
Quote:
Originally posted by Azred:
quote:
Originally posted by Dace De'Briago:
You left off 8.

8) Lack of care about the environment and the continued evasion of the worthwhile Kyoto accords.
There are many countries who are contributing negatively to the environment, yet environmentalists choose to focus only on the US. I wonder why that is? [img]graemlins/1ponder.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/beigesmilewinkgrin.gif[/img]

China doesn't care a whit for Kyoto, either. I doubt anyone will try to force them to comply, either. [img]graemlins/petard.gif[/img]
[/QUOTE]It doesn't hurt to set a good example though.

America is the worlds leading consumer of natural resources, and Europe is actually leading the way in good environmental practice. Maybe this situation should be addressed?
Dace De'Briago is offline  
Old 02-07-2005, 09:38 PM   #60
shamrock_uk
Dracolich
 

Join Date: January 24, 2004
Location: UK
Age: 40
Posts: 3,092
Isn't it something like 5% of the worlds population but a third of the worlds pollution - there has to be some sort of responsibility here! China is still a developing nation - the US has the technology to have a real stab at alternative technology now. We focus on the US because it's the worst offender. By far. Not because of anti-Americanism or anything like that, simply because America is the biggest 'problem'.

What's really bad is that Kyoto is only a small amount of what actually needs to be done, yet even that is considered unaceptable by the US. It does not bode well for the future.

You'd think that with such a faith-based agenda, the Bush government would have taken stewardship views of the environment a bit more seriously

[ 02-07-2005, 09:40 PM: Message edited by: shamrock_uk ]
shamrock_uk is offline  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
US military shoots unarmed Iraqi soldier Link General Discussion 23 11-17-2004 02:02 PM
I knew Al-Qaeda were scum.... Son of Osiris General Discussion 3 02-09-2004 07:56 PM
Scum of the Internet Son of Osiris General Discussion 22 11-21-2003 04:46 AM
Are Iraqi children going to school? ( Iraqi Indoctrination) Chewbacca General Discussion 0 03-21-2003 12:41 AM
DROW SCUM!!! IntrospectiveIdeals Baldurs Gate II Archives 21 07-24-2001 04:29 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:33 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
©2024 Ironworks Gaming & ©2024 The Great Escape Studios TM - All Rights Reserved