Should Texas secede from the United States

[Yorick]

Well the European Union would rub it's hands with glee if that ever eventuated.

[Iron_Ranger]

Originally posted by John D Harris: quote: Originally posted by Iron_Ranger: No, what would be the point? Not too much to gain if Texas did that. And for the record, no Bush is not a native Texan, he moved here when he was 3 I think and grew up in Midland. Edit: John D. It was actually N. (or S. ?) Carolina that never surrendered to the Union

Are you sure about that? Sherman did a number on S. Carolina in his march to the sea, along with what he did to Georgia, and I thunked he turned north. (note to self re-read Civil war books, nay, I'm to old I'll just watch the discovery channel )[/QUOTE]No I am not sure, thats just what I have heard before

[antryg]

Well, it seems like the one thing this thread has done is to send us all scurrying back to check our history books. Teachers everywhere are clapping with glee. They're learning, they're learning.
Trying to get back on topic, does anyone have any views concerning the Republic of Texas? There are people here working to make it a reality. I think their legal premise is weak and our Civil War pretty much answered the question. (ie. What Congress has joined together no state may separate)
What I'm afraid will happen is that those acting like the "Republic" already exists will cause the next big confrontation and shoot out.

[ 11-05-2002, 11:15 PM: Message edited by: antryg ]

[Azred]

Although I am quite sure that there are plenty of people elsewhere in the US who might like to see Texas secede, it will never happen (at least not anytime in the next century or two).
Were Texas to secede and try to become its own nation, we would need a currency, not to mention other governmental agencies we don't have already. The problem with this is that the average Texan is opposed to big, expansive government.

Even though I disagree with the Republic of Texas, they do raise an interesting point about whether the bringing of Texas into the US was, at that time, Constitutional. This question has never been answered satisfactorily.

[Timber Loftis]

Originally posted by Willard: quote: Originally posted by antryg: Texas is unique as a state in that it was neither one of the original colonies that joined together to form the US nor was it aquired via purchase or war. Texas was an independent country which voluntarily joined the US.

What about Vermont, eh? Nobody eber mentions Vermont! Nobody! Nobody!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[/QUOTE]Well, Willard beat me to it. And, at least one other person on the board thinks to mention Vermont upon occassion, Willard, but don't let me ruin your inferiority complex.

West Virginia, by the way, was never properly chartered as a state, a fact they love to point out. Oh, and they still have a border dispute with Virginia, which the government solved by creating a National Park over the area.

Sorry, just pointing out that Texas is not so different.

But secede if you like, President Bush will become unqualified and Cheney will be president.

Excerpt from http://www.wvculture.org/history/statehoo.html :
On October 24, 1861, residents of thirty-nine counties in western Virginia approved the formation of a new Unionist state. The accuracy of these election results have been questioned, since Union troops were stationed at many of the polls to prevent Confederate sympathizers from voting. At the Constitutional Convention, which met in Wheeling from November 1861 to February 1862, delegates selected the counties for inclusion in the new state of West Virginia. From the initial list, most of the counties in the Shenandoah Valley were excluded due to their control by Confederate troops and a large number of local Confederate sympathizers. In the end, fifty counties were selected (all of present-day West Virginia's counties except Mineral, Grant, Lincoln, Summers, and Mingo, which were formed after statehood). Most of the eastern and southern counties did not support statehood, but were included for political, economic, and military purposes. The mountain range west of the Blue Ridge became the eastern border of West Virginia to provide a defense against Confederate invasion. One of the most controversial decisions involved the Eastern Panhandle counties, which supported the Confederacy. The Baltimore and Ohio Railroad, which ran through the Eastern Panhandle, was extremely important for the economy and troop movements. Inclusion of these counties removed all of the railroad from the Confederacy.

*******

The United States Constitution says a new state must gain approval from the original state, which never occurred in the case of West Virginia. Since the Restored Government was considered the legal government of Virginia, it granted permission to itself on May 13, 1862, to form the state of West Virginia.

When Congress addressed the West Virginia statehood bill, Massachusetts Senator Charles Sumner demanded an emancipation clause to prevent the creation of another slave state. Restored Government Senator Carlile wanted a statewide election to decide the issue. Finally, a compromise between Senator Willey and Committee on Territories Chairman Benjamin Wade of Ohio, determined that, after July 4, 1863, all slaves in West Virginia over twenty-one years of age would be freed. Likewise, younger slaves would receive their freedom upon reaching the age of twenty-one. The Willey Amendment prohibited some slavery but it permitted the ownership of slaves under the age of twenty-one.

The United States Senate rejected a statehood bill proposed by Carlile which did not contain the Willey Amendment and then, on July 14, 1862, approved a statehood proposal which included the Willey Amendment. Carlile's vote against the latter bill made him a traitor in the eyes of many West Virginians and he was never again elected to political office. On December 10, 1862, the House of Representatives passed the act. On December 31, President Lincoln signed the bill into law, approving the creation of West Virginia as a state loyal to the Union without abolishing slavery. The next step was to put the statehood issue to a vote by West Virginia's citizens. Lincoln may have had his own reasons for creating the new state, knowing he could count on West Virginia's support in the 1864 presidential election. On March 26, 1863, the citizens of the fifty counties approved the statehood bill, including the Willey Amendment, and on June 20, the state of West Virginia was officially created.

[Cloudbringer]

Originally posted by Donut: Is this so? Were Idaho or Illinois acquired via purchase or war. (BTW I know there were many more. Hawaii?)[/qb]

Ack! I was born in Hawaii the year after it acquired statehood....you think they'll secede and leave me homeland-less? sheesh, and I love pineapple, too!

[ 11-06-2002, 11:11 AM: Message edited by: Cloudbringer ]

Ok, according to the notes I took in history class, All the lands east of the Mississippi were basicly declared US property in the treaty of Paris. Spain Owned Florida for a while, and Napoleon Held the Louisiana territory (as described in my earlier post) The New England states were fleshed out in agreements with the British who ended up owning Canada.

We eventually got Florida from Spain, bought the Louisiana purchase from Napoleon (who apparently did not realize exactly how much land was at stake).
California was bought from Mexico, the territory north of California was received from the English in return to form the current canadian border (we turned over some of the Louisiana purchase lands which extended into what is now canada) And for our pledge of aid if the Russians decided to make incursions into British territories.

The South Western US was refered to as the "Great American Desert" and wasn't looked at till later in the 1800's

The US made the Monroe Doctrine to keep European countries out of the western Hemisphere with the backing of the British who pledged to use their fleet to attack nay invasion forces sent to the new world from any other european nation.

Well thats all I got on the aquisition of territory by the Early US.

[Ar-Cunin]

Originally posted by MagiK: Ok, according to the notes I took in history class, All the lands east of the Mississippi were ...................

And Alaska was bought from Russia

Three West Indian Isles was bought from Denmark (St. Cruix and two others)