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Old 03-08-2012, 09:06 PM   #1
Aerich
Lord Ao
 

Join Date: May 27, 2004
Location: Canada
Age: 42
Posts: 2,061
Default Party Composition for the latest run

*Hey ZFR*

Now that I am fully up and running, here goes. These characters are actually imports from a game I tried to play on an old laptop some time ago but had to give up in Dragon's Eye. In big fights the graphics got slower and slower until they stopped...

The end result is that I had a pre-made party enabling me to drive through some of the more painful parts of the early game without running a tank-paladin around and around in circles, which smacks of heretical characterization. Note that I haven't played anything other than Heart of Fury mode for at least my last two runs through the game.

I am not running any mods: I tried Auril's Bane once a while ago on my old computer, but it messed up something in my game so that my characters couldn't cast Mirror Image - well they could, but it didn't do anything. A reinstall didn't fix it, and my wizard casters can hardly survive without Mirror Image. So, although I'd like to have endless stacking ammo, I will do without mods for now.

The mode is Heart of Fury. The characters had about 600,000 XP at the start of the current run. The party is currently in Kuldahar on the way to the Vale.

Paladin
Ranger/Cleric (mc)
Fighter/Druid (mc)
Fighter/Mage/Thief (mc)
Fighter/Illusionist (mc)
Cleric/Mage (mc)

The theme of my parties at higher difficulty levels is multi-purpose, spellcasting characters. I tend to use spells to control fights and minimize party damage, and it's important that 5 or more of my characters can clean up damaged enemies in melee. I don't particularly wish to start the MC vs. DC debate again, unless someone else wants to pick it up with me, but I find that I prefer the steady growth and constant contributions of a mc character over the uneven growth and contributions of a dc. That goes especially in HoF mode, where it's 'all-hands-on-deck' for at least the first half of the main game.

I concede there is merit to a dc fighter/mage and fighter/druid, but in my view the fighter contributions gained after regaining fighter levels are not so spectacular that it's worth the effort. I find that the dc character has to be babysat for a significant portion of the game, and that makes my usage of the dc more of an afterthought. Although, it is rather neat to have a mc and dc fighter/druid in the same party with one casting and one shapechanged (with damage resistance items). I recall that party just chewed through the expansions. I would also encourage those with patience to create a dc with two spellcasting classes; one of the neatest characters I ever made was a full-out spellbomber evil cleric/necromancer dc at cleric lvl 13. Of course, as this character was terrible in melee, it didn't start racking up kills for quite a long time.
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Last edited by Aerich; 03-08-2012 at 10:22 PM. Reason: Edit: XP inaccurate
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Old 03-09-2012, 04:28 AM   #2
ElfBane
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Join Date: March 21, 2004
Location: Cape Canaveral, FL
Age: 68
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Default Re: Party Composition for the latest run

My only (and to me a big one) complaint about DCing is that to do it optimally, you need prior knowledge.
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Old 03-09-2012, 05:07 PM   #3
Azred
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Ironworks Forum Re: Party Composition for the latest run

I concur. My playing preference is multiclass but I prefer class combinations that aren't always available. Original pencil/paper AD&D (pre-2nd edition) allowed for elves and half-elves to be assassin/mage and half-orcs to be fighter/assassin (I had one of those--he was pretty darned effective, too).
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Old 03-12-2012, 08:48 AM   #4
ZFR
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Join Date: February 14, 2002
Location: Ireland
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Default Re: Party Composition for the latest run

Thanks Aerich
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Re dual vs multi. I played a HoF game where I compared dual vs multi fighter/druid.
To summarize:
_I liked the dual better. But only slightly. It's not something that will make or break a party.
_I had absolutely no problems with babysitting him while he was weak. Then again it was in a relatively easy area (ice museum)... He gained XP fast.

Overall I'd say a (dual + multi) pair is slightly better that a (multi + multi) pair. But... a (multi + multi) pair is a lot better than (dual + dual) pair. Does that make dual better or worse than multi?

I'm just partial to duals. IMO one or two can make a party stronger. But too many can make the party a lot weaker.
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As for your party composition, what I find strange is having 3 mages, out of which only one is triple class?
In my Hof game, even my F/M/T was gaining levels faster than he could find scrolls. With (bi-)multi classes it's going to be even worse. Are you going to find enough scrolls for all 3? There is going to be some fierce competition for scrolls and lots of empty spell slots, at least in the beginning...

Is there any advantage of having a C/M over F/C/M in HoF??


And no bard??
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Old 03-12-2012, 02:26 PM   #5
Aerich
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Join Date: May 27, 2004
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Default Re: Party Composition for the latest run

I'd agree that a dual + multi is slightly better than a multi + multi, assuming they are of the same class types. I put it down to greater ability to specialize in roles (e.g. F/M bomber and spellsword), + the mc's ability to cover the required skills while the dc is getting up to speed.

It's not bad having three mages, I have done so before. It does take some forethought as to each of their roles. To take second level spells for example, the F/I has Mirror Image, Blur, Strength, and Aganazzar's Scorcher - his role, at least for second level spells, is pre-buffing multiple characters with Strength, and being close to the front lines in battle. The F/M/T has Web, Invisibility, Horror, and Stinking Cloud, spells suitable for a support caster and in a pinch, useful if she is scouting and gets discovered. The M/C is more of a bomber type and has Melfs and Snillocs. Note that I do try to even things out somewhat level by level, thus the F/I has Flame Arrow for the 3rd level and Vitriolic Sphere for the 4th.

There's no question that you gain levels faster than you find scrolls, especially in the early game with HoF, even more so if your characters have some game experience prior to entering HoF mode. However, it's no big deal to me to have "untapped potential" for my mage characters, and at least having two classes per character keeps it from getting out of hand. I will eventually find enough scrolls, and a disciplined look at each of their selections will allow me to keep a level of balance. It may also force me to look outside the box and use certain spells more even though they are not the "best" choices at their level, simply because I have so many total spell slots available.

I prefer a C/M to a F/C/M if we're talking about more of a support character (e.g. a 6th character, not a core character in a smaller party). I hate the weapons restrictions on a F/C/M, so I rarely take one. It doesn't really bother me with the M/C, because I don't really use any with that character. There's not much point to adding the fighter class to a 6th character, sure it might help with slings, but the loss of 1/3 of the experience from M and C levels does eat into the spellcasting abilities. The whole point of the C/M's cleric class in my party as constituted is to provide generic healing duties so the R/C can melee (e.g. using Draw Upon Holy Might, after the Strength spell I might add, instead of Cure Moderate Wounds at the second spell level). The point of the mage class is to fill a pure bomber/support role while the F/I stays close to battle and the F/M/T roams to shoot, sneak attack, scout, or spellcast in support. The fighter levels would take away from all that, and with two spellcasting classes the character has little need of, and little to add with, either a sling or a bludgeoning weapon.

Nope, no bard. It's a great support character in the mid-game and the War Chant, Song of Kaudies and Tymora's Melody are excellent songs, but it will max out relatively early. I prefer having two cleric casters so I can increase the R/C's effectiveness, and I couldn't do that easily if I took a bard in the 6th spot. Besides, I've finished an entire game before where a character (bard) had less than 20 total kills, and I like to spread the glory around.
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